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Offline babcocca

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Angry and Disappointed
« on: July 15, 2014, 07:35:40 am »
I hope that this post will be allowed to stay in spite of the forum rules to provide a place for users to rant.

Securifi should have tried for a awesome do it all Smart Hub for all kinds of different sensors and left it at that.

They did a TERRIBLE job at the entire router side.

Everything about it is awful. There isn't one function that one would expect from a $10 Chinese router that isn't f'd up. Oh, it got DHCP from my cable modem. Yay. Everything else is f'd up.

I will go on but will wait to see if this thread lives.

LGNilsson

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Re: Angry and Disappointed
« Reply #1 on: July 15, 2014, 09:05:05 am »
Rants are fine, but it's more useful to post a bit information so we can start to try to solve the problems you're having.
« Last Edit: July 15, 2014, 09:29:43 am by Lars »

Offline mrv777

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Re: Angry and Disappointed
« Reply #2 on: July 15, 2014, 09:59:45 am »
I would just like to say that I also agree that the router's functionality is very limited.  HOWEVER, I believe that the software just needs to be worked on.  Securifi knows this and promises firmware updates in the near future with features added.  The OpenWRT panel in the Admin section does provided some more features in the mean time.
I expected this some as I believe this:  Securifi sent out the routers as soon as the hardware was complete, all major bugs were fixed, and all needed and basic functionality was working.  This way backers could get their routers as soon as possible and start using them, instead of making us wait another month or two.  More features are coming, we just have to be patient.  The product is not even available to the general public yet, so it should be treated as the software is still in Beta

Offline eldaria

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Re: Angry and Disappointed
« Reply #3 on: July 15, 2014, 10:03:54 am »
Securifi should have tried for a awesome do it all Smart Hub for all kinds of different sensors and left it at that.
No this is not what was in the Kickstarter and not what we pledged for.

Quote
They did a TERRIBLE job at the entire router side.

Everything about it is awful. There isn't one function that one would expect from a $10 Chinese router that isn't f'd up. Oh, it got DHCP from my cable modem. Yay. Everything else is f'd up.

I will go on but will wait to see if this thread lives.

I have to say I do not agree with you, I had the developement router for some time now, and although it is still lacking quite a few features on the software side, this is a kick a*s router with way more horsepowers than anything you can get on the market.
And software is changeable, and you getting the hardware and the software that came with it is not the end, but a start of something.
« Last Edit: July 15, 2014, 10:09:29 am by eldaria »

Offline rfoshee

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Re: Angry and Disappointed
« Reply #4 on: July 16, 2014, 01:38:47 pm »
No this is not what was in the Kickstarter and not what we pledged for.

I have to say I do not agree with you, I had the developement router for some time now, and although it is still lacking quite a few features on the software side, this is a kick a*s router with way more horsepowers than anything you can get on the market.
And software is changeable, and you getting the hardware and the software that came with it is not the end, but a start of something.

Disagree all you like however, there's a problem here: the Almond+ is built on the same NutsOS as the Almond router which came out 2-3 years ago.  That means Securifi already has a few years' worth of development in this router OS.  And frankly, it's appalling.  It's built on top of OpenWRT, NutsOS is really just their fancy UI for it with their own automation stuff shoehorned in.  There are HUGE feature disparities between NutsOS and OpenWRT, which means sometimes you have to log into OpenWRT directly to make certain changes that should be doable through NutsOS.  Why should people be angry about this?  Securifi had 14+ months to get the software right for this router -- and let's be honest, it's just an upgrade of their existing firmware -- and they still screwed it up.  There should be zero feature disparities between the two, I was even notified by Securifi support directly that new features will be added in 6 months to a year out.  Features that should already be there could take up to a year to implement.

I've run dd-wrt for almost 8 years and it was never as daunting to find things as NutsOS is.  I have a decade's worth of experience in networking and never have I found a product more confusing to use.  Some features just don't work.  Most features have zero explanation as to what they do.  Even the support guy told me he found OpenWRT daunting and confusing to use.  If your own support team says that, it doesn't bode well for the product that I waited over 14 months to get, even with all the delays.

The whole Almond+ team appears to have not prepared for launch whatsoever.  There was no Almond+ forum group prior to release day, the wiki pages for the Plus are nothing more than a quick start guide and explains almost nothing about the "advanced" features of NutsOS, there's no real manual for this thing.  They seriously dropped the ball on a product they've been producing and delaying for so long.

Offline GatorEye

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Re: Angry and Disappointed
« Reply #5 on: July 16, 2014, 07:42:57 pm »
I don't even have mine yet and I'm frustrated.  I don't see how with the ridiculous delays they still don't have all the home automation stuff done. I mean - they had YEARS to work on it. They are still working on the scheduling and the API is like 6 months to a year away... I don't even understand the point of shipping it if all the software isn't done.  You would have figured at least the router part would have been rock solid.

I don't think the Securifi team understood how a beta program is supposed to work. I mean basically at this point everyone is a beta tester. I'm not sure what the point of paying extra to be a beta tester was in their mind. Sad.

LGNilsson

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Re: Angry and Disappointed
« Reply #6 on: July 17, 2014, 01:30:13 am »
Well, I stand by what I said, OpenWRT is not as user friendly as DD-WRT and some features can be confusing, I've used both. Sadly, DD-WRT is not an option for as our chipset partner only supports OpenWRT as the core OS. Technically speaking, we could've removed any user access to OpenWRT and just given you NutsOS, but we know many like to tinker around with more advanced settings, so we left it all in place, for better or worse.
OpenWRT/LuCI is provided as is and we're not planning on developing anything for it, but that doesn't mean those interested can't do so.

The Almond+ is NOT build on the same NutsOS as the Almond. The Almond is MIPS based and runs a very different Linux platform.
Yes, we can port some of the features over and much of it should've been done already. However, we've run into a lot of unexpected issues with the Almond+ platform that has taken up valuable resources from our software team which has lead to them fixing bugs that shouldn't be bugs, instead of spending time developing the features of the Almond+.
Does this mean that we're going to leave the Almond+ as it and forget about it? Hardly. We have a new firmware coming in a little over a week now that will bring the first set of features that should've been there from day one to the Almond+ and we're going to continue to work on it until most of you are happy, since we're unlike to be able to please everyone.

It's easy to make assumptions when you're not involved in product development. We're a comparatively small company with limited resources, we're not D-Link, Netgear or Asus.

As for the beta test and not knowing how to do it, well, we offered beta units, we shipped beta units and had very little feedback, so sadly there was only so much that could be done here in terms of getting additional feedback.

As for the forums, there has been an Almond+ forum for several months, you just had to create an account to see it and this is why we asked everyone months ago to create accounts.
Yes, the Wiki is still a work in progress and will be so for the remainder of the life of the product. Considering I'm pretty much the only one contributing content to the Wiki (again, small team, limited resources), besides doing a lot of other things, I don't have unlimited time to write documentation.

Yes, Almond+ doesn't live up to everyone's expectations, in fact, in its current state, it doesn't live up to my expectations. However, I know that given a bit of time, it will.

Disagree all you like however, there's a problem here: the Almond+ is built on the same NutsOS as the Almond router which came out 2-3 years ago.  That means Securifi already has a few years' worth of development in this router OS.  And frankly, it's appalling.  It's built on top of OpenWRT, NutsOS is really just their fancy UI for it with their own automation stuff shoehorned in.  There are HUGE feature disparities between NutsOS and OpenWRT, which means sometimes you have to log into OpenWRT directly to make certain changes that should be doable through NutsOS.  Why should people be angry about this?  Securifi had 14+ months to get the software right for this router -- and let's be honest, it's just an upgrade of their existing firmware -- and they still screwed it up.  There should be zero feature disparities between the two, I was even notified by Securifi support directly that new features will be added in 6 months to a year out.  Features that should already be there could take up to a year to implement.

I've run dd-wrt for almost 8 years and it was never as daunting to find things as NutsOS is.  I have a decade's worth of experience in networking and never have I found a product more confusing to use.  Some features just don't work.  Most features have zero explanation as to what they do.  Even the support guy told me he found OpenWRT daunting and confusing to use.  If your own support team says that, it doesn't bode well for the product that I waited over 14 months to get, even with all the delays.

The whole Almond+ team appears to have not prepared for launch whatsoever.  There was no Almond+ forum group prior to release day, the wiki pages for the Plus are nothing more than a quick start guide and explains almost nothing about the "advanced" features of NutsOS, there's no real manual for this thing.  They seriously dropped the ball on a product they've been producing and delaying for so long.
« Last Edit: July 17, 2014, 02:55:19 am by Lars »

Offline eldaria

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Re: Angry and Disappointed
« Reply #7 on: July 17, 2014, 03:36:30 am »
Honestly guys, you backed a Kickstarter project.

Kickstarter is to get early access and to provide support to a new product that you believe in. And should be money that you are prepared to loose.
Compare Kickstarter to Gambling and you get the idea.

Yes the product was delayed, but this was not due to software, but due to hardware. And when you get new hardware that has a completely different architecture then you need to make new software.
When the Kickstarter was launched they had an almost finished product. What we saw during the campaign was a restart and the creation of a complete new product. And to get that far on such a short time is actually amazing.

Right now you have an early version of a product and it would be a whole lot more effective if you gave constructive feedback on what does not work as you expect and what you would like to see, and then don't expect it to be there the next day.
If they had the resources to do full in-house testing, advanced and rapid software development, then they would not have come to Kickstarter for funding would they?

Clearly Securifi know how to make good routers, as they have the highest rated router on Amazon and has kept that rating for a long time even though new competing products have come to market since it was released.


Offline nonaitall

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Re: Angry and Disappointed
« Reply #8 on: July 17, 2014, 09:23:23 pm »
Haters gonna hate. For just a $100 and a little patience, I'm thrilled.

Thank you, securifi.

Offline frichter09

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Re: Angry and Disappointed
« Reply #9 on: July 20, 2014, 03:31:17 pm »
Completely agree with nonaitall.
The unit isn't even oficially released yet. The support in this forum is outstanding and I believe securifi is working on the software as we speak. I am too frustrated with the unreliable WiFi performace and my nas drive dropouts but hey, this is all software and can be fixed.
Flo

Offline skidoctor

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Re: Angry and Disappointed
« Reply #10 on: July 21, 2014, 10:16:53 pm »
Thanks guys - more than happy to be on the leading edge! You have a really cool product and look forward to see where it goes! When I go with a Kickstarter project I fully expect to see Version 1.0 and you have a pretty impressive start - keep up the good work! :)

Offline babcocca

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Re: Angry and Disappointed
« Reply #11 on: July 22, 2014, 06:09:16 am »
This is my problem. I went from the pinnacle of router code: http://code.google.com/p/rt-n56u

To this....

There are a couple of email links on that page. Those folks know how to use a router to its best capabilities.

Offline babcocca

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Re: Angry and Disappointed
« Reply #12 on: July 22, 2014, 06:36:33 am »
So I send Lars a question....

Quote from: babcocca on Today at 06:16:10 AM
Lars,

I cannot connect to RDP on my internal network using the standard port of 3389. I looked at the firewall rules and they are blank. What gives?

Charles

and get this reply....

Can you have look in the OpenWRT UI, it would seem that the implementation in NutsOS is severely missing at this point.

I know you're annoyed by all the issues and I'll be the first to admit that things are far from ideal at the moment, but we are working on fixing things.
However, I do also want to point out that we never set out to create a router for hackers, we set out to create something that would be easy to use.
This might've lead to some oversights as to what features are important and we seemingly have missed our target audience a little bit and we'll be working on correcting all of these software issues.

That leads me to say the following..

Dear Securifi,

Who did you think you were creating a router for??? Ma and Pa Kettle are not using sensors. For now, this is a router for the hard core. Its great to shoot for making it have a friendly interface but there are basics to achieve.

I am not being a jerk here. Really and truly, the router implementation is not acceptable. It sucks and sucks badly.

I have to unplug my Almond+ and go back to my n56. I will copy this post and put it in my public rant.

Please send me an email when you think you have something that might perform minimum tasking. Router functions FIRST, make the addons work later. Torrent, FTP, etc etc


Offline eldaria

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Re: Angry and Disappointed
« Reply #13 on: July 22, 2014, 12:14:11 pm »
You know, if you are really a "hacker" or advanced user, then you will open up an ssh session to the router and configure it from there.
Just because it is not in the GUI does not mean it can't be done.

Offline teuna

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Re: Angry and Disappointed
« Reply #14 on: July 23, 2014, 04:35:22 am »
 ;D

 

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