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Offline EricJilot

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Z-Wave Controller
« on: July 23, 2014, 12:14:21 pm »
How do you get the Almond+ to join an existing z-wave network as a secondary controller? Is it even supported?  I have searched but was unable to locate anything that helped me to resolve this.

LGNilsson

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Re: Z-Wave Controller
« Reply #1 on: July 23, 2014, 09:34:09 pm »
I replied too a similar question on Kickstarter a while back.
The short answer is no.
The slightly longer one is that it's complicated.
The long answer is that since we can't copy a lot of data across from another brand of gateway, it would be very hard for us to do this, as we'd only get partial data and only for the sensors. We wouldn't be able to copy information such as names, locations, scenes, events, triggers etc. which more or less makes this useless. We're not aware of any other gateway manufacturer that can do this across brands. So in as much as the Z-Wave standard allows for this, we don't know of anyone that can do this successfully. We will be adding support for Z-Wave remote controls and scene controllers though.
« Last Edit: July 24, 2014, 07:38:08 am by Lars »

Offline teuna

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Re: Z-Wave Controller
« Reply #2 on: July 24, 2014, 05:04:18 am »
Hi,

But will it be possible to have 2 Almond+ on the same Z-Wave network ?

NAt

LGNilsson

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Re: Z-Wave Controller
« Reply #3 on: July 24, 2014, 07:51:35 am »
It's something we're planning, but it's not in place right now.

Offline teuna

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Re: Z-Wave Controller
« Reply #4 on: July 24, 2014, 10:38:47 am »
So for me, it means having my almond+ in the basement as it needs to be the closest to my DSL box.
Not very practical to use as a Z-Wave box.

Attached is what i want to do :
- have a Z-Wave Box in the first floor
- have a AC wireless router near my internet modem/box
- have a AC Wireless bridge between 1st Floor and Basement to replace my CPL

Do you think it'll be possible ?

Nathanaël

Offline frichter09

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Re: Z-Wave Controller
« Reply #5 on: July 24, 2014, 10:46:50 am »
Hi Lars,
I believe the MIOS (Vera) controllers can do that and its commonly done for large Z-wave networks.
Edit: oops, you said across brands so no I don't think this is possible!

LGNilsson

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Re: Z-Wave Controller
« Reply #6 on: July 24, 2014, 10:59:55 am »
To extend the Z-Wave network you don't need another gateway/controller, you simply need a device that functions as a repeater to help boost the signal.
There are dedicated repeaters, but many mains powered Z-Wave devices also doubles as repeaters.

Offline teuna

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Re: Z-Wave Controller
« Reply #7 on: July 24, 2014, 11:17:01 am »
I know about the Z-Wave mesh network. I'll just have to reconsider at first the use of Almond+ : as i cannot have my router and z-wave server at the same place. As i also want to replace my (crappy) cpl network, i'm trying to think of a solution with :
 - one almond+ as a main router (eth + wifi AC) - On simple Almond would have been enough but is not AC
 - the other in the living room (much more convenient) as a wifi bridge, z-wave box

NAt


Offline EricJilot

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Re: Z-Wave Controller
« Reply #8 on: July 25, 2014, 07:17:24 pm »
Yes it is not as useful as it could be, but I would not say that it is useless.  I currently configure each controller for the tasks it is best suited for.  So my primary controller really does not have all the extra data you are referring to, and that is for a reason.  I started using Z-Wave in it's early stages, so most controllers were very limited in what they could do.

I currently use a Aeon Z-Stick II as my Primary controller, along with HomeSeer Z-Tool software for pairing.  I have a number of various number of table top controllers for lighting control around my home.  I also have a Honeywell Tuxedo panel for my home security system, which I have configured as a secondary controller.  Since it does not support all the various devices I have within my home. It is only utilizing the devices that it supported, such as my door locks. Which my panel is configured to lock when ever the system is armed.

The reason I use the Stick as my primary is that it is far easier to move around the house for device pairing then trying to do that with something the required a power cord and LAN line.  Which made possible to add my thermostat and Tuxedo Panels to my Z-Wave network, since both these devices have dedicated hardline as well. 

So having the Almond+ as a secondary controller is actually quite useful.  I was planning to move use the Almond+ like a primary, just without having to completely redo my existing network. 

Offline jsharpe

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Re: Z-Wave Controller
« Reply #9 on: August 21, 2014, 02:00:20 pm »
I would like to chime in and say that I would like to see the capability to add the Almond+ to join an existing z-wave network as a secondary controller.  I currently use a ThinkStick with ControlThink software as my primary controller for over 100 z-wave devices (mostly light switches, dimmers, and appliance modules).  The ControlThink software provides many features that I do not want to give up such as network optimization, backup/restore, scenes, activities, GUI, etc.  I also have a number of Nevo remotes as secondary controllers.

Although it would be nice, I don't really need to import everything from my existing master. However, it simply isn't an option for me redo the entire network with the Almond+ as a master.  Until it can join an existing network as a secondary controller it is useless for me for anything z-wave related, which is unfortunate as that is the main reason I purchased it.

LGNilsson

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Re: Z-Wave Controller
« Reply #10 on: August 21, 2014, 11:01:19 pm »
Just replied to someone else about this exact same topic, but using a different controller to yours.

Secondary controllers are very complicated if it's anything than a regular remote or scene controller.
Two Vera's will work great and we'll make this work with two Almond+'s in the future too, but going cross brand is not going to happen.
Why? Simply because the Z-Wave standard don't include definitions on how to store the sensor data and everyone is doing this differently and as such it's an OS level integration.
Technically we can make this work, but every single sensor would show up without any metadata you've added and we don't even know what else could go wrong, as we have zero control over our competitors gateways.
I just had a quick look over at the SmartThings forum and they have similar limitations.
I'm not saying it's impossible to do this, but it's not something we're supporting at this point in time and it's never going to be a perfect setup.

The same applies in your case, possibly even more so, as I presume the PC software you're using has a lot of advanced options.

Offline jsharpe

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Re: Z-Wave Controller
« Reply #11 on: August 22, 2014, 10:02:06 am »
Hi Lars,

Thanks for the quick reply.  I do certainly understand the issues with trying to have some kind of cross vendor z-wave support.  However, what would be minimally sufficient at least for me is much less than that and given the behavior I've observed when adding the Nevo controllers to the network shouldn't be too difficult to implement.   Simply, being able to join the network and seeing the list of existing the devices (by node number), with no metadata other than what can be queried from the network would be great.  In order to be more useful in the Almond+ software I would then expect to have to re-specify meta data such the names of the devices, using one of the Almond+ user interfaces (web or touchscreen) just I would have to do when using it as a master.  Beyond not losing the advanced features of my existing primary controller I also want to avoid is unnecessarily rebuilding the entire network, especially with a wired (power and network) controller.  Walking around adding over a hundred devices was tedious enough with a laptop.

 

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