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Offline eldaria

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Programming the HA
« on: January 15, 2014, 04:02:14 am »
Since I'm a parent and a Techie, I was looking for ways to teach my daughter programming, and I stumbled upon the Code.org, Hour of code campaign, and was thinking about how you will design the HA GUI.

The GUI they use is very easy to learn, and you can build quite complex things without actually knowing code syntax, it is based on some work done at MIT, and there is a similar system for programming Android apps.

Will the HA GUI be as simple as this?

Hour of Code:
http://learn.code.org/hoc/1

MIT App Inventor:
http://appinventor.mit.edu/explore/hour-of-code.html

The system for MIT app inventor could be used for a HA system, where different type of devices are like different hardware devices in the Phone, and thus have different properties.

LGNilsson

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Re: Programming the HA
« Reply #1 on: January 15, 2014, 04:53:55 am »
To be brutally honest, as of right now, we don't have anything in place for this, but it's something we'll be working with you guys to get in place, so ideas like this are welcome.
Hopefully some of our developer level backers will work on us with this (you?  :D), as this is one of our weakest points right now.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2014, 05:00:10 am by Lars »

Offline Mike

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Re: Programming the HA
« Reply #2 on: January 15, 2014, 05:12:58 pm »
What I have seen from appinventor is great, especially for tech-novices. But apparently these things are still in the early stages, so I hope the initial focus will be on the rudimentals: decent flow control, sensor states, events/triggers, scene composition, things like that, which have more value for the more tech-savy backers/early adoptors.
In the end it would be best if advanced users do not feel limited and first time users dont get get scared from complexity and do get amazed by opportunities once on their way. In a begginners/advanced mode, appinventors style is definifly the way to go for the beginners side. Tasker (android) could be the other one, it has tremendous options to what it can hook in to, but that has been around for years, hard to achieve in a few months.

I appreciate how open you guys are! Id love to keep hearing where things are going :)

LGNilsson

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Re: Programming the HA
« Reply #3 on: January 15, 2014, 09:20:15 pm »
Our goal is to make an easy to use device and as such, we'll never be another Vera product. I just want to make this very clear.
That said, we know we have a lot of work to do when it comes to making the Almond+ do what you guys want it to do, but at the same time, make it approachable for those that don't have too much experience with home automation.
It's a very fine line to thread, as we don't want to alienate any of our customers because it's too basic or too hard to use.
I hope we can work with our developer community to add some of the more advanced features over time, but as I already mentioned, at day one, the Almond+ won't be doing everything.
We know what we need to do internally, but maybe our way isn't the best way and this is in part why we did the beta/developer tiers, as this will give us early feedback, not just with regards to bugs and other issues, but also with regards to what we need to do on the software side.
Right now we have a working touch screen UI, but it's not "prettyfied" yet, we have native mobile apps and a web app, but again, there are a lot of things we need to add here to make it a fully featured home automation solution for the more advanced users, of which we know quite a few of our backers are.
We believe that with your help, we can make this not just a good product, but a great product and we are listen to all your feedback, it's just not possible for us to do everything at once.

Offline Automate

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Re: Programming the HA
« Reply #4 on: January 16, 2014, 11:16:08 am »
we'll never be another Vera product. I just want to make this very clear.
This could be interpreted more than one way.  Can you explain how you will be different than Vera?

Thanks,

LGNilsson

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Re: Programming the HA
« Reply #5 on: January 16, 2014, 10:24:55 pm »
Sorry, that was poorly written, we'll not be another Vera product, as for one the Almond+ will be easy to use, whereas the Vera is a pain imho, but at the same time, we won't support the multitude of options they have, at least not by ourselves. If this happens in extension with our community, then great, but our goal is to create something new and different in the market where usability is key, as to be honest, in as much as I have a Vera Lite at home, I'm barely using any of it's features, simply due to the fact that it's too complicated to do what should be fairly simple tasks. To be honest, I talked to them about this at CES and they said that they're working on bringing out a major software update that will address some of these issues.
Then again, we don't want to make an overly simplistic product either, as then no-one's going to want to use it and considering I've tested multiple platforms such as Lowe's Iris, the Vera Lite, SmartThings, Revolv etc. I have at least a pretty good idea of what we need to deliver to meet the expectations of most of our customers. I'll freely admit that we won't have everything there on day one and it'll be a work in progress together with our customers to make the Almond+ into a product that will appeal to everyone from beginners to advanced users on the home automation side.
We have no doubt a lot of work ahead of us, but so does our "competitors". Take the Revolv for example, it's not possible to de-associate a sensor, which is a disaster if you want to test something, but isn't planning on making it a permanent part of an installation. SmartThings doesn't detect a wide range of devices I tried with, which is kind of funny, as they're making claims of working with just about anything out there. Now, I'm not going to go and say that we work with every single device under the sun, because we don't, but likewise, we've never made any such claim that I'm aware of at least. What we are doing though, is testing a wide range of sensors and devices to make sure that they'll work with the Almond+ and we'll continue to do this for the life of the product. In fact, one of the things I did at CES was to meet up with sensors and devices makers and ask them if we could do some compatibility testing, to which almost all agreed.
I'm not sure if this was the answer you were looking for, but we do have a pretty good idea of the expectations with regards to the Almond+ and we'll do our best to deliver on this.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2014, 12:12:41 am by Lars »

Offline Automate

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Re: Programming the HA
« Reply #6 on: January 19, 2014, 11:17:48 pm »
Thanks, your reply matches what I was hoping for.

Offline Jbeaman

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Re: Programming the HA
« Reply #7 on: February 27, 2014, 05:36:26 am »
I also appreciate the depth of your reply and I'm glad to hear you've had first hand experience with devices like Revolv (new comer, but impressive marketing) and Vera Lite (this and Homeseer have large communities).

Maybe I missed it, but when will the SDK/APIs be opened up to the public?  I was thinking more like a consumer than a developer when I signed up... but I'm looking forward to getting my hands on the Almond+ as soon as it arrives.

DEVICE CERTIFICATION - sounds like you have done a lot of testing with many devices already and the z-wave/zigbee certifications should also help out. 
    Will you have a way for users to submit/vote on which devices work for them?

Device support Web UI ideas:
1. Allow searching/filtering of your supported devices
2. Allow users to submit devices that worked for them (or didn't)
3. allow users to submit device specific issues (bug reporting / resolution)
4. Allow developers to submit device profiles/modules that can be loaded like apps... (looks like the direction you're going, so I can't wait to arrive at the destination)

 

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