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Author Topic: Securifi SZ-PIR02 design flawed?  (Read 9494 times)

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Offline mparadis

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Re: Securifi SZ-PIR02 design flawed?
« Reply #15 on: February 25, 2015, 09:22:35 am »
These are the trippers he mentions. http://www.amazon.com/Quirky-PTRPR-WH01-Tripper-Window-Sensor/dp/B00P7RURIG/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1424874100&sr=8-1&keywords=quirky+tripper I am not sure how you can get them shipped out to you but they are zigbee based which I don't believe has regional differences so they should work if you can get your hands on them.

Offline Fire69

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Re: Securifi SZ-PIR02 design flawed?
« Reply #16 on: February 25, 2015, 02:50:58 pm »
So... I tried turning on the light on or off with a door sensor.
Not a huge success  :P

Rule 1:
Door sensor open + light off => light on
Rule 2:
Door sensor open + light on => light off

Result:
Light starts flashing because it detects the light is off and then on and then off and then on and then.... well, you get the picture  ;D

Wrong logic in my rules or ... ?
« Last Edit: February 25, 2015, 02:57:48 pm by Fire69 »

Offline bwainscott

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Re: Securifi SZ-PIR02 design flawed?
« Reply #17 on: February 25, 2015, 03:14:52 pm »
So... I tried turning on the light on or off with a door sensor.
Not a huge success  :P

Rule 1:
Door sensor open + light off => light on
Rule 2:
Door sensor open + light on => light off

Result:
Light starts flashing because it detects the light is off and then on and then off and then on and then.... well, you get the picture  ;D

Wrong logic in my rules or ... ?

Unfortunately, I think that is just a limitation on the way they have set up the rules.  I suggested to Lars that another level of switch logic be added so that you could do a rule like:

When the door opens:
   IF the light is on then
      turn the light off

so that the light being on cannot initiate the rule, but can be a condition to the action.  So then you'd have rule initiation, then additional conditions, then the action.  There is still a LOT that I'd like to be able to do that is far beyond that (hopefully general scripts as actions, and a way for scripts to trigger rules or have some kind of sensor API).  But as things stand now nothing like that exists, so I think you are out of luck.

Offline Fire69

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Re: Securifi SZ-PIR02 design flawed?
« Reply #18 on: February 25, 2015, 03:22:35 pm »
Unfortunately, I think that is just a limitation on the way they have set up the rules.  I suggested to Lars that another level of switch logic be added so that you could do a rule like:

When the door opens:
   IF the light is on then
      turn the light off

so that the light being on cannot initiate the rule, but can be a condition to the action.  So then you'd have rule initiation, then additional conditions, then the action.  There is still a LOT that I'd like to be able to do that is far beyond that (hopefully general scripts as actions, and a way for scripts to trigger rules or have some kind of sensor API).  But as things stand now nothing like that exists, so I think you are out of luck.

That would indeed be a nice solution.  We'll see what the future brings in terms of possibilities for the rules.

So I guess I'm back to my initial question then, is there a problem with the Securifi motion sensor?

Offline bwainscott

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Suggestion for new rule type
« Reply #19 on: February 25, 2015, 04:00:39 pm »
That would indeed be a nice solution.  We'll see what the future brings in terms of possibilities for the rules.

So I guess I'm back to my initial question then, is there a problem with the Securifi motion sensor?

No idea.  I don't have any motion sensors yet.  But I see the problem. It would definitely be nice if the motion sensor had the delay, so it reported motion, and then didn't report anything until there had been no motion for X minutes (at which point it reports "no motion").  That seems like the reasonable way to do things.  Maybe Securifi can build some special motion detector code into the rules for this.

Actually, this could solve another problem I have.  If they could have a rule that reads "If sensor X has been in state Y for N seconds, then..."

Then you could have "motion -> light on.  No motion for 120 seconds -> light off"  and it wouldn't flash the lights in weird ways.  I'd use it for "If my door has been closed for 300 seconds -> lock the door" and this would avoid the current problem I have of it locking the door when it is open (because someone opened it just before it was going to lock).

So Lars/Securifi -- how about adding that to your list of suggestions for rules?  Pretty please?

Offline Ohiomedic

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Re: Securifi SZ-PIR02 design flawed?
« Reply #20 on: February 26, 2015, 01:53:21 am »
Don't know which would be the best for you to check since your in Europe, or if they even have them in a Freq. that would work for you.

https://www.quirky.com/shop
http://www.amazon.com/Quirky-PTRPR-WH01-Tripper-Window-Sensor/dp/B00P7RURIG/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1424933460&sr=8-1&keywords=quirky+tripper

LGNilsson

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Re: Securifi SZ-PIR02 design flawed?
« Reply #21 on: February 26, 2015, 04:47:46 am »
I've asked the guys in the software team to read through this thread, as I think they haven't really thought about some of these scenarios.

That said, the SZ-PIR02 is working as intended, what you want is a presence sensor, not a motion sensor. The two are similar, but not the same, as the presence sensor will keep something on until there's no movement in the room, whereas a PIR simply detects movement. We might be able to solve this in software and I know the guys are working on something, so let's see.

Offline Fire69

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Re: Securifi SZ-PIR02 design flawed?
« Reply #22 on: February 26, 2015, 05:30:30 pm »
Lars,

Thanks for having them take a look at it.

Concerning the sensor, to be honest, I don't get how it's intended that it sends a motion/no motion signal at the same time. It detects motion, but sends it doesn't.
When I activate the notification for this sensor, I always get 2 notifications at once, 1 for motion detected, 1 for motion stopped.  That can't be how it's supposed to be, right?
Also, in the rules UI, you can use 'No motion' as a condition, but the way the sensor is working, I don't see how you would be able to use that...

Offline Blueiris8

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Re: Securifi SZ-PIR02 design flawed?
« Reply #23 on: February 27, 2015, 10:18:06 am »
I use the Aeon Labs multi-sensor.  It has a built in 4 minute delay.  So it won't send a no-motion message to the almond unless there has been no-motion for 4 minutes.  Technically, the delay can be adjusted, but it has to be done via the almond (functionality hasn't built to my knowledge).  right now only the Motion and Temperature features work with the almond, but it's a great price for all you get.

http://www.amazon.com/Aeon-Labs-Aeotec-Z-Wave-Multi-Sensor/dp/B008D5TYGU

Offline Fire69

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Re: Securifi SZ-PIR02 design flawed?
« Reply #24 on: March 11, 2015, 04:50:05 pm »
The last couple of days I've been trying to come up with rules that can use the 'No motion'-trigger for this PIR.
But since it only sends this signal when it DETECTS MOTION I don't see how this can be used in any useful way...  >:(

Offline Fire69

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Re: Securifi SZ-PIR02 design flawed?
« Reply #25 on: April 02, 2015, 03:49:08 pm »
Too bad there is no feedback on this anymore, I am still convinced there is a design flaw with this sensor...

LGNilsson

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Re: Securifi SZ-PIR02 design flawed?
« Reply #26 on: April 03, 2015, 11:09:41 am »
Sadly there's nothing we can do about it. There's no way to push a firmware update to these, as they don't have enough flash memory for it and they can't be manually updated either  :-\
There's really nothing wrong with the sensor as such, they just don't work the way you're expecting them to.

 

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