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Author Topic: Is this product dead? Should I write off my investment and move on?  (Read 81886 times)

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Offline TheLostSwede

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Re: Is this product dead? Should I write off my investment and move on?
« Reply #150 on: December 06, 2015, 05:39:38 pm »
I shouldn't have to be a programmer to use any HA gateway, this isn't unique to SmartThings unfortunately, as Fibaro has similar requirements if you want to use their "extended" features, although it only works with their high-end gateway.

As for Z-Wave+, it's not as if the first generation of SmartThings gateways support it either, so this is kind of an unfair comparison.

What I'd like is a gateway that 1. follows the standards 2. has a system that allows you to create rules, scenes, events, triggers, etc. without having to write code.

I'm not expecting the impossible and I'm not expecting everything at day one from a new company, but I think the two of has very different definitions of what "works perfectly" means.

Offline rldreams

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Re: Is this product dead? Should I write off my investment and move on?
« Reply #151 on: December 07, 2015, 02:10:33 pm »
I never claimed or implied that ST works "perfectly" . The simple fact that most controls are cloud based is a big deficiency on the part of ST compared to A+.  Supposedly more control is going to be moved and handled locally, but we all know how far a promise takes you when it comes to features "coming soon ".
 The 2 things I miss most moving all HA off A+ and onto ST is the local control and LAN access IF the cloud or internet go down.  However the number of supported devices and integration with other platforms ( Hue, Echo, Harmony, TCP connect, Honeywell ) . Having to add a Raz Pi as @SecureComp suggests in my world just adds another possible ( likely ) failure point, and again requires custom coding to work.

I am convinced (unless somebody can actually prove otherwise) that most if not all my issues with A+ were caused by me overloading it . In the ( wow) almost 3 months since I removed all HA off of A+ the router has been 99.5% stable and only needed to be rebooted maybe 4 times. ( I just checked at uptime on A+ is 19 days, 7 hours 10 minutes.  If I remember correctly that reboot was just the result of moving plugs on Powerstrip and had nothing to do with A+ performance. ). No more dropping of WAN ,WiFi or LAN clients at all and even my network HDD is actually working again. It is not freezing up and not responding when I attempt to open a large file, not just disappearing from file explorer, things it always did since I got A+. I always blamed it on WD not on my network router.  I was actually able to move the HDD back down into the basement where it belongs instead having it sit on my desk where I could powercycle it so it would reconnect every time I wanted to access a file on it.

Offline SecureComp

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Re: Is this product dead? Should I write off my investment and move on?
« Reply #152 on: December 07, 2015, 03:44:22 pm »
I never claimed or implied that ST works "perfectly" . The simple fact that most controls are cloud based is a big deficiency on the part of ST compared to A+.  Supposedly more control is going to be moved and handled locally, but we all know how far a promise takes you when it comes to features "coming soon ".
 The 2 things I miss most moving all HA off A+ and onto ST is the local control and LAN access IF the cloud or internet go down.  However the number of supported devices and integration with other platforms ( Hue, Echo, Harmony, TCP connect, Honeywell ) . Having to add a Raz Pi as @SecureComp suggests in my world just adds another possible ( likely ) failure point, and again requires custom coding to work.

I am convinced (unless somebody can actually prove otherwise) that most if not all my issues with A+ were caused by me overloading it . In the ( wow) almost 3 months since I removed all HA off of A+ the router has been 99.5% stable and only needed to be rebooted maybe 4 times. ( I just checked at uptime on A+ is 19 days, 7 hours 10 minutes.  If I remember correctly that reboot was just the result of moving plugs on Powerstrip and had nothing to do with A+ performance. ). No more dropping of WAN ,WiFi or LAN clients at all and even my network HDD is actually working again. It is not freezing up and not responding when I attempt to open a large file, not just disappearing from file explorer, things it always did since I got A+. I always blamed it on WD not on my network router.  I was actually able to move the HDD back down into the basement where it belongs instead having it sit on my desk where I could powercycle it so it would reconnect every time I wanted to access a file on it.

Wow, I think I've only had to power cycle once since owning the A+, all others have been softboots.  Now you have me curious about loads, I think I will hit my A+ with several hardwire connections and pump so more video through it. Already streaming vid to 6 devices and no hiccups at all.  Maybe I'll throw some load testing software at it. The hardware is what it is but I really don't expect to crush it that easily. I wonder if early backers were whacked with some different hardware revs or something.

As for a Raspberry Pi and stability. They run like bricks, so long as you aren't overclocking/overheating, they are plenty robust. Not to mention any linux box would do, doesn't have to be a Pi, they're just cheap and easy but so is any old PC or laptop.  I do hear you about the coding and that's part of the DIY thing, out of the box, no one is bringing what is needed to the table just yet. I'm actually looking to start working with a well known US University of a few things and am hopeful. Can't believe we are so off the mark in 2015 but maybe some brute forcing will push that forward. Even the Japanese haven't impressed me yet. Some cool stuff for sure, but the user interface or MMI for the old timers is still weak as can be. I've actually productized my efforts and am almost ready to make an product offering that doesn't compete with Securifi but would absolutely work with it and many other things. I really wanted to bundle it with the Almond products just because of the touchscreen interface the good will built up on Amazon but it seems that most of that has been squandered at this point. That and the 3/5yr NDA just to help them Beta, which is outrageous to my mind, disheartening to say the least. Even so, I'll offer a few more apps, some online support, hang tough until the release software comes out, though I have put a personal deadline on that, and remain optimistic, at least a little longer. Especially since Smart Things, Verde and a bunch of others are more than a little underwhelming. Community support is awesome but it also means the product itself should offer so much more out of the box.
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Offline d.kiran

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Re: Is this product dead? Should I write off my investment and move on?
« Reply #153 on: December 07, 2015, 07:11:31 pm »
Based on Amazon's sale and Costco's sale, I am fairly certain Securifi is getting rid of Almond+ in preparation for something new. Also, the beta update to me seems like something in preparation for new hardware rather than supporting existing users.

While, I am happy with my Almond I think Securifi has done a very very poor job of treating their customers. Very slow updates, very incremental changes. The worst part is the NDA. I still don't understand why we had to sign the NDA when every single feature of the new beta firmware was already published here by Ashok.

Here's the worst part. Even though I am a satisfied customer (very very rare here in the forums), I am certainly going to think very long and hard before I purchase any Securifi products. To me that's the worst part. Securifi has actually managed to lose a satisfied customer by their lack of communication or road map or engagement.

Offline SecureComp

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Re: Is this product dead? Should I write off my investment and move on?
« Reply #154 on: December 07, 2015, 07:59:28 pm »
Based on Amazon's sale and Costco's sale, I am fairly certain Securifi is getting rid of Almond+ in preparation for something new. Also, the beta update to me seems like something in preparation for new hardware rather than supporting existing users.
Likely so, after all the A15 came out, wouldn't surprise me a bit if the next Almond has some home automation capability. You roll the dice with crowd/community funding efforts, it's a risk and any that think otherwise haven't played the game long enough.

Quote
While, I am happy with my Almond I think Securifi has done a very very poor job of treating their customers. Very slow updates, very incremental changes. The worst part is the NDA. I still don't understand why we had to sign the NDA when every single feature of the new beta firmware was already published here by Ashok.
Quite so.

Quote
Here's the worst part. Even though I am a satisfied customer (very very rare here in the forums), I am certainly going to think very long and hard before I purchase any Securifi products. To me that's the worst part. Securifi has actually managed to lose a satisfied customer by their lack of communication or road map or engagement.

That is in fact, very disturbing, very true, short sighted and indicative of a style of management with which, sadly, I am all too familiar. Clearly something "happened" between CES, the establishing of the forum and some personal changes and none of it for the better.
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Offline razzfazz

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Re: Is this product dead? Should I write off my investment and move on?
« Reply #155 on: December 07, 2015, 09:49:13 pm »
You roll the dice with crowd/community funding efforts, it's a risk and any that think otherwise haven't played the game long enough.

... except A+ has been out of the crowdfunding phase and sold at regular retail for a year now. Once they started taking orders through Amazon, I really don't think it was reasonable to expect the same kind of risk tolerance from customers as for a kickstarter.

Offline SecureComp

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Re: Is this product dead? Should I write off my investment and move on?
« Reply #156 on: December 08, 2015, 12:32:47 am »
... except A+ has been out of the crowdfunding phase and sold at regular retail for a year now. Once they started taking orders through Amazon, I really don't think it was reasonable to expect the same kind of risk tolerance from customers as for a kickstarter.

Totally agree.

Rules should have been out of beta before going retail.

I can't speak to the glitchy 5gig issues, haven't been impacted by them but that should have been run to ground quickly after going to retail as well.

Securifi will live or die by it's management decisions. I've got shelves full of obsolete hardware, some of it never really delivering on promised performance. This isn't the first, nor the last I'm sure. But again, my routing, WiFi and essential Home Automation works like a champ and I've been able to get it to play nicely with a voice response system. Just want the API and Rules with Scenes out of Beta and working.
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Offline rldreams

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Re: Is this product dead? Should I write off my investment and move on?
« Reply #157 on: December 09, 2015, 03:03:13 pm »
Wow, I think I've only had to power cycle once since owning the A+, all others have been softboots.  Now you have me curious about loads, I think I will hit my A+ with several hardwire connections and pump so more video through it. Already streaming vid to 6 devices and no hiccups at all.  Maybe I'll throw some load testing software at it. The hardware is what it is but I really don't expect to crush it that easily. I wonder if early backers were whacked with some different hardware revs or something.


I have never claimed to have a light system, but I really do not think it is that out of ordinary in 2015. The 4 LAN ports on A+ were 1 to desktop ,1 to TCP connect hub, 1 to WD Mybook live HDD, last went to a WD 8port switch in the basement. On that switch in the basement there are 3 Actiontec Moca adapters, cat6 line to another WD 8port switch in main entertainment center, cat6 line to 4 port switch in daughter's entertainment center and my 16 channel CCTV DVR, IP camera NVR . 8 port switch in my entertainment center has TV, Tivo, Blue-ray player, FireTV, IP camera, ( and now ST hub ) . 4 port in Daughter's entertainment center has Tivo, Blu-ray player, IP camera. There is another 4 port switch at the other end of 2 of the MOCA lines .  1 in daughter's daughter's bedroom with her TV and Tivo attached. One in our bedroom with Tivo, Roku, Blue-ray player . The third Moca line goes to the daughter's office with an original Almond as a wireless AP and her desktop computer plugged into it.
 I have now moved the TCP connect hub to LAN port on original Almond in the daughter's office since all the TCP bulbs are in her side of the house and the WD Mybooklive to the 8port switch in the basement. Replaced the TCP hub on my desk with a Hue Hub plugged into A+, network printer in the last port.
 So add them up and I have over 2 dozen devices on hardwire LAN , not that they are ever all being used at the same time.  I am not even going to try and count all of the wireless devices from phones, tablets, thermostats IP cameras, but  A+ is showing 33 wireless clients right now. I have 3 tablets set up as permanent monitors streaming the CCTV 24/7 , 3 Amazon Echoes streaming music , etc etc.
 

Offline TheLostSwede

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Re: Is this product dead? Should I write off my investment and move on?
« Reply #158 on: December 09, 2015, 05:43:12 pm »
Shouldn't be an issue, in the office at Securifi (at least when I worked there), there was a 24-port Gigabit switch that was fully populated and another switch hanging off of that, a NAS, a bunch of computers, a security system, various home automation gateways, about 40-50 wireless devices, and a bunch of other things, plus sensors and it didn't miss a beat.

Honestly, it sounds like you got a dud and there were a few of those, but not that many. If you'd contacted the support team, they would've swapped yours out for you and maybe they still will. Yes, the software had some stability issues too, but clearly if the hardware was as bad as you're saying, I think everyone on Kickstarter would've asked for a refund and I would personally not be using mine today.

Keep in mind that the SoC has a dedicated Wi-Fi offload processor so under normal Wi-Fi use, if you log in via SSH  to the router and run the top command, you're only going to see 5-10% CPU usage. In your instance, it shouldn't be using more than maybe 50% with a bunch of things going on. The hardware is actually not bad, but sadly the software support from Cortina was less than stellar and Securifi got screwed over by them, as what they "sold" wasn't what was delivered.

I still have some software issues and I'm as eagerly waiting for a new firmware as everyone else here, so fingers crossed for this next release...
« Last Edit: December 09, 2015, 05:46:37 pm by TheLostSwede »

Offline rldreams

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Re: Is this product dead? Should I write off my investment and move on?
« Reply #159 on: December 09, 2015, 06:03:28 pm »
I have talked with support multiple times  Ashok called me at least once or twice because you told him to call me after I posted an issue in the forum and once after I sent in logs that raised a few eyebrows I guess .
 Like I said earlier ( in this thread or another) , since I removed all HA off of A+ it has been reliable and stable as just a router with a nice clock.
« Last Edit: December 09, 2015, 06:05:55 pm by rldreams »

Offline SecureComp

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Re: Is this product dead? Should I write off my investment and move on?
« Reply #160 on: December 09, 2015, 07:33:39 pm »
I have talked with support multiple times  Ashok called me at least once or twice because you told him to call me after I posted an issue in the forum and once after I sent in logs that raised a few eyebrows I guess .
 Like I said earlier ( in this thread or another) , since I removed all HA off of A+ it has been reliable and stable as just a router with a nice clock.

Guess I missed that part before. You are using it as a router and you think only the HA stuff was giving you grief ?

I'll wager there is something else afoot. Not that it matters at this point. I have stayed away from the TCP Connect hub, have several other types working without issue and plenty of lights and sensors. If it really is the HA side of things, should be pretty easy to monitor the ZWave/Zigbee processing and see if something was looping and choking the system.  A fun puzzle for sure but given that you moved on, no point in trying to noodle it out now. It is unfortunate, sounds like a nice setup and a consistent problem is a solvable problem, it's the intermittent ones that are a challenge.
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Offline rldreams

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Re: Is this product dead? Should I write off my investment and move on?
« Reply #161 on: December 11, 2015, 09:34:41 am »
Guess I missed that part before. You are using it as a router and you think only the HA stuff was giving you grief ?

I'll wager there is something else afoot. Not that it matters at this point. I have stayed away from the TCP Connect hub, have several other types working without issue and plenty of lights and sensors. .

I only have about half dozen TCP connect bulbs, they were one of the first steps into HA and were quickly upgraded. That said I have never really had any issue with the TCP connect , they arewere just limited when it comes to integrating with other devices, no integration with A+. That is why they are all in the daughter's apartment now.  My only issue with HA on A+ was the limited number of supported devices, inability to integrate with other systems. ( again had to give the daughter all the TCP connect lights and replace them with GE/Cree bulbs, Leviton switches  )

 I was having all the " usual " issues with WiFi and LAN cutting out, A+ losing connection to modem, ridiculously slow connection speeds, WiFi signal dropping off 20 feet from the router.  After I removed all HA from A+ it has been working fine as just a router, WiFi.  Wifi signal on both 2.4 and 5Ghz is strong and stable throughout the house and even in the back yard again. So IMHO the workload of the HA devices was over taxing the A+ hardware.  The A+ poor WiFi performance was why I ended up re-purposing the old cable TV RG6 for Moca to get internet throughout the house with all the network switches .

Offline selena2006

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Re: Is this product dead? Should I write off my investment and move on?
« Reply #162 on: March 15, 2016, 12:42:50 am »
the same problem here. what a piece of bs they sell.

Offline SecureComp

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Re: Is this product dead? Should I write off my investment and move on?
« Reply #163 on: March 15, 2016, 01:38:31 pm »
the same problem here. what a piece of bs they sell.

Problem?
Which one?
You eliminated all HA stuff and now the router works well?

Sorry to hear your experience isn't as good as others. Mine is working very well. Not flawlessly, but very well. Plenty of HA stuff, Rules, Apps, WiFi.  Slowly working on loading it up some more.
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Offline hashish

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Re: Is this product dead? Should I write off my investment and move on?
« Reply #164 on: March 23, 2016, 11:14:09 pm »
I started a thread about moving the WIFI antennas to the outside of the unit and buying higher gain antennas, I wonder if there could be any interference between the antennas (zwave and zigbee are both 2.4 ghz)

 

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