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Author Topic: Wall Switches  (Read 5571 times)

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Offline Frozen

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Wall Switches
« on: May 04, 2017, 01:13:31 pm »
Hello Everyone,

I am kind of confused about what I need to install a wall switch.  So I just moved into a new home and every light switch is a paddle switch. I also have paddle switches that control ceiling fan/lights and regular lights. I am not too sure what I should buy to get me moving in the right direction.  Do I need a main switch to talk to all the other switches or is that just a GE thing? I also see that Linear WD500Z-1 is supported but again does this need some type of controller or will the Almond+ talk directly to the switch.

I am not sure what I need to get this project started.

Thanks for the help.
« Last Edit: May 04, 2017, 02:23:29 pm by Frozen »

Offline fillibar

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Re: Wall Switches
« Reply #1 on: May 04, 2017, 03:28:40 pm »
So... Can of worms a bit. It depends on what switches you are replacing and what they are doing.

The WD500Z you mention will "talk" directly to the Almond+. It is a decent single switch replacement for a switch that controls lights. I do not remember how (or if) it can be used in a 3-way switch setup if you have one. One gotcha (with most switches really) is it will not tell you when you manually control it. Example: Say it Is off (and Almond says it is off). If you press the switch to turn on it will turn on the lights but the Almond probably will still say it is off. This is because the switch did not tell it. You need to double-press this switch for it to also tell the Almond. Not an Almond problem.

Other options are:
Controlled relay modules you can put in the switch boxes. These are usually meant as a retrofit item but you need a deep enough switch box.
Replacing bulbs themselves with controllable bulbs. This is useful usually for fixtures or spots you can leave it on all the time (and turn it off using the Almond not a switch). This can get expensive if there would be many bulbs all having the same switch (recessed lights maybe) versus just replacing the switch.
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Offline Frozen

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Re: Wall Switches
« Reply #2 on: May 04, 2017, 04:29:32 pm »
Thank you for the reply.

Yes I kind of figured that this would be a can of worms because everything I have read was stating something about a controller switch that would control the other switches. 

I do have a few smart bulbs that I have the Almond+ already controlling.  I have for instance my porch lights being controlled by the Almond and I have a piece of tape over the switch to leave it on.  Good to know about the double press of the button to let the Almond+ know the status update.

Do you know of a 3 or 4 way switch to control a ceiling fan and that talks directly to the Almond+?


Offline fillibar

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Re: Wall Switches
« Reply #3 on: May 04, 2017, 06:53:01 pm »
So... I do not know of a 3 or 4 way ceiling fan switch. I DO know of a ceiling fan switch, the GE 12730. I have 3 of them (we have no AC so ceiling fans are needed). It works well, controlling 3 speeds. Although it is treated like a dimmer switch (0-100%) by the Almond, so generally setting it anywhere from 1-33% is low, 34-67% is medium, and 68+ is high if I recall.

There are wall switches that can act as "secondary controllers". The idea being you pair devices to them then control the switch to control those devices. Almond does not support secondary controllers so you could not control the devices that are secondary to it (just the switch itself).

There are some switches out there meant for 3 way (or more) situations usually with a secondary switch (not to be confused with a secondary controller). That secondary switch is JUST meant to talk to it's primary switch, never back to the overall controller. You mentioned that in the initial posting about the GEs. I think an example would be the GE 12723. Looking at an Amazon listing for one I can see they are supposed to work with the Z-Wave (or other protocol) switches GE has including the Fan Switches, and they can be used for 3 or 4 way combinations. The problem is the listings (and reviews) mix the various switches so sometimes it is messy. But it looks like you could use the 12723 along with 12722 (Z-Wave on/off), 12724 (Z-Wave Dimmer) or 12730 (Z-Wave Fan Control) to do what you are looking for.

I cannot say how the 12722, 12723 or 12724 have worked or would work (maybe there are other postings for them) as I have not used them. I can say the 12730s have worked very well all along.
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Offline Frozen

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Re: Wall Switches
« Reply #4 on: May 04, 2017, 07:14:47 pm »
Thank you.  I am going to have to digest this a bit but it looks like the GE stuff was kind of the way to go.

I think I am going to buy a couple of these and see how it goes.  I am installing a CT101 thermostat tonight and the switches are my next project.

Again thanks for your expertise.

Offline fillibar

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Re: Wall Switches
« Reply #5 on: May 05, 2017, 10:14:43 am »
Post how it all goes if you get a chance. That helps other people as well.
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Offline Frozen

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Re: Wall Switches
« Reply #6 on: May 05, 2017, 11:44:23 am »
Will do.

I did try to install the CT101 last night and couldn't find the C wire.  I did a little bit of research and it could be behind the wall wrapped or coiled.  I didn't take the old thermostat off the wall because I didn't know it could be behind the wall.  If not I will have to run a new C wire.

Offline fillibar

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Re: Wall Switches
« Reply #7 on: May 05, 2017, 12:08:05 pm »
When we bought our house they had an old thermostat. When I went to replace it I found it lacked the C and ANY other wiring if we ever wanted AC... Thankfully I was able to run a new line and put in a full set of thermostat wire. May never use all of it but at least it is all there if needed. Simple future proofing when possible.
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Offline Frozen

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Re: Wall Switches
« Reply #8 on: May 05, 2017, 12:46:05 pm »
Didn't even think about running a new bundle, i was thinking just a C wire.  That's a great idea to future proof the house.

Offline fillibar

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Re: Wall Switches
« Reply #9 on: May 05, 2017, 07:20:59 pm »
I thought of it when we did ours because there were ONLY the 2 wires at our house. I knew that someday when we replace the furnace we will likely add AC so no matter what it would be replaced then. I just decided to use the old wires as the "fishing" cable and used it to pull the new wires right through the wall and to the basement. Just glad they never bothered to staple it to the studs.
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Offline Frozen

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Re: Wall Switches
« Reply #10 on: May 07, 2017, 01:31:40 am »
So, I did get my ct101-L installed without having to run a C wire or a brand new wire set. Let me explain.  It could help someone.  So, I took the old thermostat off and didn't see another wire. I was bummed but knew I might have to run a new wire set. At this point I didn't have time to run one so I was going to set it up without a C wire.  I had no slack in my wires and I needed a little more wire.  My basement is unfinished so I was able to get an additional 3".  Since I got so much I wanted to straighten things up and ended up snipping away 2".  I had to pull away the sheath to get another inch or so and low and behold there was a blue wire that was cut and in the sheath. I did read that (not that it's a rule) but if there is a blue wire it most likely a C wire.  I ended up pulling an additional 1" through or so to straighten up the lengths.  Hooked everything up using the blue as the C wire and it worked.

The CT101 works like a charm.  I was able to pair it without issues.  If anybody is reading this the CT101-L thermostat is at Lowes for $59.99 down from 89.99.

I also bought a couple of the GE  12723's.  I will let you know if or how I will use these.

 
« Last Edit: May 07, 2017, 01:37:27 am by Frozen »

Offline fillibar

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Re: Wall Switches
« Reply #11 on: May 08, 2017, 08:44:47 am »
That is awesome. Always good to get a pleasant surprise like that.
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Offline Frozen

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Re: Wall Switches
« Reply #12 on: May 25, 2017, 11:52:09 am »
So I am still working on this project.

I tried to install the 12723 and it didn't do what I wanted it to do.  It was just like a regular light switch not an actual toggle that I wanted.  I ended up getting a 12722 and I think that one will work much better and does.

Does any one know if the Almond+ supports the Add on switch 12723 with the addition of a 12722 z-wave unit?  I think the way it works is that you need a z-wave switch on the same "power line" that you are adding an add on switch.  Will the "add on switch" be seen on the Almond+ and if so how does all this work. Is the switch listed under the main switch?  Just curious before I actually try to get another and see whats up.

I can get a 12722 up and installed and talking to my Almond+ but since the 12723 is an add on switch it requires a z-wave switch to use z-wave.

Just kind of confused.

On a another note I purchased 3 of the First Alert 2 in 1 z-wave smoke/carbon detectors. I also purchased another 12722 and I got a dimable one as well the 12724.  I will let everyone know how I have things setup when I am completed.

Thanks for the help.

Offline fillibar

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Re: Wall Switches
« Reply #13 on: May 25, 2017, 01:00:45 pm »
If I recall, the add-on switches are only seen by the switch they are connected to, not the controller. So if that switch reports it's state (when changed by the add-on switch) then the controller would see the change but not directly from the add-on switch.
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Offline engr.jpc

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Re: Wall Switches
« Reply #14 on: May 25, 2017, 01:43:16 pm »
I have 2 pairs of 12722 and 12723... If I turned ON/OFF the lights manually from 12722 my Almond 3 will receive the status change but if I do it from 12723 A3 will not be updated.

 

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