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Author Topic: Number of rules?  (Read 4279 times)

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Offline variable

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Number of rules?
« on: October 18, 2017, 12:29:39 pm »
I'm coming from the Smartthings world and have been using WebCoRE to handle a lot of automation, from setting hue bulbs to random colors on motion, to turning on lights when the door is unlocked as well as differing rules based on who's home etc.  There doesn't appear to be a limit, though there's sure to be a practical one, but at the moment I have something like 30 rules (as well as a bunch that aren't from WebCoRE).

I'm considering switching because I like the local control - Wink, while nice, doesn't have a very sophisticated rules engine, and Smartthings operates almost entirely in the cloud.

Semi-related: can more than one Almond hub be on the network - and useful to the Home Automation component?

Offline fillibar

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Re: Number of rules?
« Reply #1 on: October 18, 2017, 02:27:58 pm »
I do not know a limit but I had over 60 rules (40-something active) at one point without seeing issues. Mostly set to make the house appear "lived in" when we went for a trip.

As for having multiple Almonds, you can, but that will not benefit you from a HA perspective at this time other than supposedly acting as repeaters. They do not presently work as secondary controllers or such. However, Almond 3 routers can be linked for Mesh networking. Or you can have multiple Almonds and treat them all separately, if you want things isolated or do not need them to be part of a single "grand system".
Almond 3 mesh handling the home.

Offline variable

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Re: Number of rules?
« Reply #2 on: November 07, 2017, 02:20:57 pm »
Hi Fillibar, thanks for the reply (and sorry I'm a poop for taking so long to say it!)

Got another question - do the rules and/or the interface for those rules live on the router?  Meaning, is this all local?  I like WebCoRE on Smartthings, but I don't like that 99% of it is dependent on the cloud, or more specifically, an internet connection.  If the web's down, I still want my light switch or motion sensor to turn on lights and play the 1812 Overture or something if you know what I mean.  A cloud interface is fine - so long as everything works when the cloud isn't available, and preferably still be able to get to said interface on my LAN (again, assuming this all runs on the device itself etc.)

In case you hadn't guessed, I'm more interested in the home automation side than the router.

Thanks :)

Offline mparadis

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Re: Number of rules?
« Reply #3 on: November 07, 2017, 03:00:01 pm »
Rules are local on the routers. Notifications are not local.

Offline variable

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Re: Number of rules?
« Reply #4 on: November 07, 2017, 03:03:52 pm »
Notifications - meaning they go through their cloud service before being delivered (i.e. SMS messages?)  Would that apply to pushed notifications via the phone app over wifi (assuming the net is offline)?

Offline fillibar

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Re: Number of rules?
« Reply #5 on: November 07, 2017, 04:09:49 pm »
I think it is all phone notifications from the app. I do not think it sends SMS, just triggers the phone's notification/alerts. No idea why that would require the cloud, but I have seen it mentioned. Maybe they flag things for their app to notice rather than the app "knowing" what to watch for in the first place.
Almond 3 mesh handling the home.

Offline variable

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Re: Number of rules?
« Reply #6 on: November 07, 2017, 08:33:44 pm »
How complex can the rules get?  I've got a rule that essentially does the following (Smartthings uses location modes as a way of indicating certain things - i.e., 'Occupied' or 'Vacation' etc):

Code: [Select]
If I'm not home AND (my GF is home OR my GF comes home)
then set location mode to GF home

else if I'm home AND my GF comes home
then set location mode to Home

else if I'm home AND (my GF leaves OR my GF isn't home)
then set location mode to I'm Home

The actual rule is quite a bit more complicated and cleaner (I could attach a screen shot if anyone wants).  Suffice to say I'm doing a lot more than IFTTT but still more algorithmic than code like.  At this point, assuming the rules can get this fancy, what's the storage like on the Almond3 and/or can stuff like this be stored externally if needed? (one thing at a time though  ;D)

Offline fillibar

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Re: Number of rules?
« Reply #7 on: November 07, 2017, 10:56:10 pm »
Rules can only be on the Almond itself. You can make them a couple methods but they are all on the device. There is not an IF THEN ELSE structure either, they are all IF THEN. Nor are there multiple Home/Away modes. But it can get fairly complex. A simplified example that might work like yours could be based on the network presence of a smartphone (or your GF's smartphone) or some other presence device. Here are a couple I used to use regularly:
1) IF MyPhone INACTIVE AND WifePhone INACTIVE THEN Mode = Away
2) IF MyPhone ACTIVE OR WifePhone ACTIVE THEN Mode = Home

NOTE: Due to my own bit of code-OCD, I would often ALSO include in the IF whether the home Mode had already been set. So #1 COULD also include "AND Mode = Home"... which would validate that the system had not already been set for Away before setting it... but it really does not matter.
Both could be expanded out to include additional devices (relatives staying for example). You could make it more specific with who is home for other rules:
ex: IF MyPhone ACTIVE AND WifePhone INACTIVE THEN DO_SOMETHING (because #2 already set the home to know you were around).
Almond 3 mesh handling the home.

Offline variable

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Re: Number of rules?
« Reply #8 on: November 08, 2017, 10:16:31 am »
Sounds like for the most part this will work (and due to quirkyness in the Smartthings rules, I completely get your OCD on that - the extended version actually has a timer that checks every 5 minutes in case it 'missed' an event.. which happens often enough to make steam come out the ears.. and the GF doesn't quite get why I want her to open the app on her phone every so often - though getting her to keep wifi turned on is a challenge as well...)

Anyway - ordered an Almond 3 so we shall see.  Thanks for everyone's input!  (PS - the 3s thats up on indigogo with the cellular and battery backup is very enticing  ;D)

Offline fillibar

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Re: Number of rules?
« Reply #9 on: November 08, 2017, 03:43:57 pm »
I have not had to worry about the rechecking with the smartphones, but I did for Christmas lights. Some of the devices were at the "hairy edge" of range and sometimes worked just fine (usually when I was testing or debugging) but sometimes would not turn off (or on) when desired. So an extra check to just repeat the command worked. Do not have that issue with devices in the house, but at this point I have so many acting as repeaters that it is a moot point. From a radio spectrum perspective my house probably looks like a Christmas tree year-round.
Almond 3 mesh handling the home.

Offline variable

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Re: Number of rules?
« Reply #10 on: November 08, 2017, 04:13:22 pm »
haha, I hear you.  We just moved and I was rounding up all the z-wave, zigbee & lutron stuff installed...  I need to get that spending in check.. I filled two of those (admittedly smaller) rubber maid totes, between switches, sensors and smart bulbs, dual band wifi, cell phones... I'm starting to see that testing for cancer on rats getting 100 times the "normal" amount of RF radiation *might* be a valid test...  ;D  Oh well, always wanted a third eyeball.  Where's my emojii for that...

 

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