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Securifi Products => Almond and Almond A1A => Topic started by: criveraf on July 09, 2014, 08:33:16 am

Title: Cannot connect Almond router with Motorola SB6141 Cable Modem
Post by: criveraf on July 09, 2014, 08:33:16 am
Hello,

I just purchased a new Motorola SB6141 Cable Modem.

Comcast activated this modem. They say it is active and they can see that the connection is live. The Internet connectivity light on the front of the modem is on solid.

If I connect a laptop directly to the Cable Modem the ethernet link light flashes indicating connectivity. I can browse the internet in my laptop this way.

Now I want to setup my Almond as a router to connect other computers and devices at home.

If I then disconnect the ethernet cable from the laptop and plug it in to the top white socket on the back of the Almond router the ethernet link light on the cable modem turns off. No lights flash on the white network socket on the back of the Almond router either.

The Almond router also indicates that the cable is not connected.

My Almond router is 1 month old and was working well with my previous cable modem (Linksys). I got rid of the Linksys modem and got the Motorola SB6141, which as stated above is working fine standalone (directly connected to my laptop), but not if I connect it to my Almond router.

I reset the Almond router to factory settings by pressing the reset button on the back, to no avail.

However, all computers connected to the Almond router can see each other as part of the same network. None of them can connect to the internet because the router and the modem cannot see each other.

HELP!

Thanks,
Carlos
Title: Re: Cannot connect Almond router with Motorola SB6141 Cable Modem
Post by: eldaria on July 09, 2014, 09:24:10 am
Hmm, just guessing here, but could it be the Ethernet cable is a crossover cable or that you need a crossover cable?

If neither the Almond or the Motorola has auto sensing ports, then this might be the reason?

What happens if you plug the cable to one of the other ports?
Did you try with a different cable?
Title: Re: Cannot connect Almond router with Motorola SB6141 Cable Modem
Post by: pete on July 09, 2014, 10:57:26 am
Here I am using similar Motorola SB6141 modem with Comcast.

Quote
Model Name: SB6141
Vendor Name: Motorola
Firmware Name: SB_KOMODO-1.0.6.10-SCM00-NOSH
Boot Version: PSPU-Boot(25CLK) 1.0.12.18m3
Hardware Version: 7.0
Firmware Build Time: Oct 29 2012 18:07:13

I have the Almond plus online and connected to the same said modem.

Try the following in order and see if that works for you:

1 - disconnect the power from the Motorola Modem
2 - disconnect the power from the Almond
3 - power up the Motorola Modem
4 - wait a minute or so
5 - power up the Almond

See if it connects to the internet automatically.

The Motorola modem is sticky first configured MAC.  You can restart it:

Restart Cable Modem

Code: [Select]
http://192.168.100.1/cmConfig.htm
Modem reset does:

1 - TFTP pull down of your configuration
2 - booting it will look at the MAC address of whatever is connected to the network port
3 - establish your internet connection using MAC address.
Title: Re: Cannot connect Almond router with Motorola SB6141 Cable Modem
Post by: criveraf on July 09, 2014, 11:20:49 am
Hmm, just guessing here, but could it be the Ethernet cable is a crossover cable or that you need a crossover cable?

If neither the Almond or the Motorola has auto sensing ports, then this might be the reason?

What happens if you plug the cable to one of the other ports?
Did you try with a different cable?

Hello eldaria, thanks for replying.

I don't know if it needs a crossover cable. Is the cable that comes with the Securifi Almond router a cross cable?

The Motorola cable modem came with an ethernet cable, which is the one I initially used to connect the cable modem to the computer as described in my first post. I would assume that this cable is a straight ethernet cable because I am able to connect to the modem and internet from the computer when connected directly to the modem.

Curiously, when I connect that same cable to one of the other two black network sockets on the back of the Almond router (2nd and 3rd sockets), the lights start to flash on the socket and the link light on the front panel of the modem starts to flash too. Is this an indication of what you are saying?

Also, yes, I have tried with other ethernet cables I have, all with the same results.

So I guess the key question is: Is the cable that comes with the Securifi Almond router a cross cable? Haven't tried it yet because I am at work and my modem and router are at home.

Thanks,
Carlos
Title: Re: Cannot connect Almond router with Motorola SB6141 Cable Modem
Post by: criveraf on July 09, 2014, 11:45:32 am
Hello pete, thanks for replying.

Here I am using similar Motorola SB6141 modem with Comcast.

I have the Almond plus online and connected to the same said modem.

Try the following in order and see if that works for you:

1 - disconnect the power from the Motorola Modem
2 - disconnect the power from the Almond
3 - power up the Motorola Modem
4 - wait a minute or so
5 - power up the Almond

See if it connects to the internet automatically.

Done. No connection to the internet, though.

The Motorola modem is sticky first configured MAC. 

I don't understand what you mean by this.

You can restart it:

Restart Cable Modem

Code: [Select]
http://192.168.100.1/cmConfig.htm
Modem reset does:

1 - TFTP pull down of your configuration
2 - booting it will look at the MAC address of whatever is connected to the network port
3 - establish your internet connection using MAC address.

I can do this, but, in order to do this, I would have to disconnect it from the Almond router and connect it directly to my computer to be able to reach the 192.168.100.1 address of the modem. Otherwise, I will not be able to reach this address, because, as stated, the Almond router and the modem cannot see each other.

Also, why I would want to restart the cable modem? Aside from what you describe above (1,2,3), what does this do with respect to the router?

Thanks,
Carlos
Title: Re: Cannot connect Almond router with Motorola SB6141 Cable Modem
Post by: pete on July 09, 2014, 01:29:37 pm
Quote
If I then disconnect the ethernet cable from the laptop and plug it in to the top white socket on the back of the Almond router the ethernet link light on the cable modem turns off. No lights flash on the white network socket on the back of the Almond router either.

The network port on the modem is Gb and the one on the Almond is not.  If the LED light is off a reset of the modem and another cable might work.  I just had a look at the original cable that came with the modem.  Its still wrapped up (never used it).  It is labeled as a standard Cat5e cable.  I am using a standard Cat6 cable with the modem today.  I don't really think that should make a difference anyways.

The Motorola SB6141 bottom Link LED Amber color indicates a 10Mb or 100Mb connection.  When the bottom link LED is Blue then its a Gigabit connection.

BTW I am using the Black SB6141 Motorola modem that was shipped to me in a Motorola box part number: 581902-001-00.  Guessing you have the same model SB6141 in white though instead of black.

Quote
Also, why I would want to restart the cable modem? Aside from what you describe above (1,2,3), what does this do with respect to the router?

When you tested it with your laptop the Motorola modem configured itself on the internet with the MAC address on your laptop.  So your trying to get on the internet with the Almond MAC will not work until you reset the modem.   A reset too might help it auto negociate the speed of the port.  Just unplugging the modem should reset it. 

That said it might be easier if you just call CC and have them reset it from their end with the Almond plugged in.
Title: Re: Cannot connect Almond router with Motorola SB6141 Cable Modem
Post by: criveraf on July 09, 2014, 11:03:05 pm
Hello Pete,

Thanks for replying and clarifying.

I followed your instructions and that did not solve the problem.

This is very frustrating. I'm thinking, this can't be too hard to solve. The Almond router should not be different from any other common router. This should have been a matter of plug-and-play, or close to that. And the Motorola SB6141 is not the problem, so it has to be the router.

What do you think of eldaria's suggestion: using an ethernet crossover cable? Do I need that type of cable to connect the router to the modem?

Been in this frustration for 3 days already. Need help desperately.  Any other ideas??

Thanks,
Carlos
Title: Re: Cannot connect Almond router with Motorola SB6141 Cable Modem
Post by: LGNilsson on July 09, 2014, 11:20:41 pm
The problem with cable modems is that the first time they're connected to a device, they lock to the MAC address of that device and the modem needs to be disconnected from the mains power for about a minute (and any internal battery need to be removed), as this will reset the MAC address lock. This is pointed out in the brief manual included with your Almond. Please see section 3. in the quick start guide here - http://firmware.securifi.com/AL1/AlmondQuickGuide.pdf

It looks like you've already contacted the support team and if this doesn't work, they should be able to provide further assistance.
Title: Re: Cannot connect Almond router with Motorola SB6141 Cable Modem
Post by: criveraf on July 10, 2014, 01:05:59 am
Hello Lars,

Thanks for replying.

Nope, that did not work either.

As a matter of fact, the guide does not show exactly the same steps or screens I am presented on the router screen.

For example:
Section 3, vii - My device did not reboot; it only made me wait for several seconds while saving my language selection. It did not show me the "Almond" and "SECURIFI" splash screens you get when unplugging/plugging the AC to the unit. Also, this section fails to indicate when to plug back the ethernet cable to the modem and router, since the previous steps indicated to unplug it.

Section 3, xii - After waiting for more than 12 minutes the router did not "auto-detect" any connection from the modem, never displayed any indication of a time-out waiting for connection and did not show me the "Step 4" screen as indicated in the guide if the connection fails. I gave up and had to tap on Skip This Step.

Section 3, xiv, xv, xvi - The router did not show or performed these steps.

Section 3.1, i - Screen shots in the guide are ambiguous. One shows an "Internet" screen and the next one shows a "Step 4" screen, both asking basically the same thing.

Section 3.1, ii - The "Step 5" screen never showed up.

I did not see any anywhere in the guide your explanation about MAC address being locked when connected the first time, nor that following the instructions will do what you explained. It may be implicit, but not actually pointed out. So basically, following the instructions is just doing things blindly, with no explanation of why has to be done this way or otherwise will happen.

Can you provide more specific instructions on what to do?

Thanks in advance.

Carlos
Title: Re: Cannot connect Almond router with Motorola SB6141 Cable Modem
Post by: LGNilsson on July 10, 2014, 01:14:27 am
It's not the Almond you should unplug, it's the modem if that wasn't clear.
What firmware is your Almond running? The latest version is R199 and if you still have your old modem, you can upgrade the firmware via the Software Update option on the LCD UI.
The guide is based on the R198 release of the firmware which is exactly the same as R199 as far as anything in English is concerned, so it seems like you have an older firmware on your Almond.

It's not explained, because we're trying to keep the tech stuff out of the manual, hence why we mentioned that the modem should be unplugged and any internal battery removed, then it should be left for a minute like that before powered back on. This resets the MAC address lock on cable modems and it's unique to cable modems only.

Keep in mind that the instructions in the manual are for a brand new (or factory rest) Almond, so if you run the wizard on its own, it won't be exactly the same flow.

Please note step xiii. it points out that the steps after that is ONLY if the Almond doesn't auto-detect your connection type. Cable modems are DHCP, so they'll be auto-detected.
You're right that we've messed up a bit with the screenshots, as one if them is from the regular wizard (step 1) and the other one is from the full wizard if you start with a new or factory reset unit, but there's nothing ambiguous about it, as it does the same, although I understand how this can be a bit unclear and we'll get it updated. Step 5 only shows up on a new or factory reset Almond, as it would be the time when you'd have to reset your cable modem.

I'm afraid you'll have to contact the support team, as I don't have any personal experience with these types of modems, since they're not utilized where I'm located.
Title: Re: Cannot connect Almond router with Motorola SB6141 Cable Modem
Post by: eldaria on July 10, 2014, 03:21:02 am
I have seen this before long time ago when I also had a Cable modem.
For some strange reason the cable modem would only provide a connection to the first device that was connected.
I had to call the provider to get them to release the lock.
Title: Re: Cannot connect Almond router with Motorola SB6141 Cable Modem
Post by: pete on July 10, 2014, 07:48:31 am
@Carlos

Quote
I did not see any anywhere in the guide your explanation about MAC address being locked when connected the first time, nor that following the instructions will do what you explained. It may be implicit, but not actually pointed out. So basically, following the instructions is just doing things blindly, with no explanation of why has to be done this way or otherwise will happen.

Can you provide more specific instructions on what to do?

Typically this is related to what ISP device you are using to connect to the Internet.  The Almond WAN configuration pieces relate to standard ISP connectivity.  The ISP's are getting more granular about this connection.  Mostly the large ISPs here utilize the same type of equipment.  There has been a "shift" a bit to the ISPs providing a combination modem, router, firewall, switch and access point device that you rent from them and they control or manage.  I personally prefer to have my own devices and just utilize my own personally purchased Motorola Modem.  I have Verizon FIOS in another home and that is utilizing a combo modem/firewall/AP/Switch and router.  Totally a different connection such that I bridged the Ethernet to the internet connection to use my own stuff.

Yup; Comcast can reset the Modem from their end.  You shouldn't have to do much with the Almond but restart it. 

Here is what a reset of you Motorola SB 6141 does and why it has a sticky MAC.  Note that it is 3 (three) assignments of MAC addresses.  One MAC is of the Motorola SB 6141 modem and another MAC is of the Ethernet device plugged in to the SB-6141 modem.   

1 - First time it boots it does a TFTP connection to a Comcast server to pull down your speed tier and validate your Modem ID (or its own MAC).
2 - While restarting it checks with Comcast for newer firmware and validates that you are a Comcast customer.
3 - The speed tier and other stuff dropped to your modem.  Its a similiar but different configuration than you firewall. (looks a bit like a Cisco router configuration)
4 - At this time it looks at the ethernet port and MAC from ethernet device and statically assigns said MAC to modem.

Your account with Comcast is configured with the device that you first plugged in.  If you call Comcast technical they will first validate the connection; like you did with a laptop.  They can see your modem and its connectivity (or not) from their end.  Note that the modem does not utilize a crossover cable.  (BTW I am on my third generation of Motorola modems now since around 2000 or so). 

If you want to reset your modem with your laptop you can do that; work fast and do the following.  You cannot break anything doing this.

1 - While on the laptop to modem connection go to http://192.168.100.1 and go to the http://192.168.100.1/cmConfig.htm page. See attached picture.
2 - Reset Motorola SB-6141 per attached picture
3 - Unplug the laptop connection from the modem
4 - plug in the Almond WAN connection to the Motorola SB 6141
5 - plug in the power to the Almond restarting it.

You should see the network LED light on the Almond blink initially, then it should get a DHCP address from the SB-6141 modem.

Once the WAN port network LED on the Almond starts to blink you will see the LCD GUI indicate an Internet connection.

Note that if you call Comcast they can see your modem and if there is an Ethernet device plugged into the Motorola.  Have them reset the Modem from there end.  Tell them to do so.  They will suggest a truck roll to repair the modem or replace it.  There is nothing wrong with your Motorola Modem or your Almond.

BTW you want to keep that Motorola 6141 modem because:

Quote
DOCSIS 3.0 - Released August 2006, the specification was revised to significantly increase transmission speeds (this time both upstream and downstream) and introduce support for Internet Protocol version 6 (IPv6).

Cross-version compatibility has been maintained across all versions of DOCSIS, with the devices falling back to the highest supported version in common between both endpoints: cable modem and cable modem termination system (CMTS). For example, if one has a cable modem that only supports DOCSIS 1.0, and the system is running 2.0, the connection will be established at DOCSIS 1.0 speeds.

As of the end of 2011, the fastest deployments in North America are expected to be Shaw Cable's announced 250 Mbit/s download / 15 Mbit/s upload, which will be implemented in phases, and Videotron's 200 Mbit/s download / 30 Mbit/s upload service in Quebec City,[5] followed by existing 107 Mbit/s deployments in the USA. In 2010, the U.S. Federal Communications Commission (FCC) urged U.S. providers to make 100 Mbit/s a standard speed available to 100 million households before 2020.

DOCSIS 3.1 - Released October 2013, plans support capacities of at least 10 Gbit/s downstream and 1 Gbit/s upstream using 4096 QAM. The new specs will do away with 6 MHz and 8 MHz wide channel spacing and instead use smaller (20 kHz to 50 kHz wide) orthogonal frequency division multiplexing (OFDM) subcarriers; these can be bonded inside a block spectrum that could end up being about 200 MHz wide.

BTW here is a wireless speed test using the Comcast SB-6141 modem and the Almond Wireless AP and my laptop.

(http://www.speedtest.net/result/3615954168.png)

Here is another one using the network cable connected from the Comcast SB-6141 modem to the Almond to my laptop.

(http://www.speedtest.net/result/3615987721.png)

Note that the ping response times above are OK but not optimal. 

Something like this would be better.

 ;)  Note that I traveled there virtually there in June.

(http://www.speedtest.net/result/3589880068.png)
Title: Re: Cannot connect Almond router with Motorola SB6141 Cable Modem
Post by: criveraf on July 10, 2014, 11:25:57 am
Guys,

Thanks for helping me out with this.

The firmware is R199. I updated it yesterday before I attempted Lars suggestion.

I re-did everything again, three times, using Lars indications and then pete's, following your screen shots.

Started by resetting to factory defaults both devices, disconnected from each other. I followed the instructions in the guides of both devices as well. The router did not detect the modem after several minutes of waiting, and in spite of that, it did not show me the Step 4 as indicated in the router's guide when the auto-detect fails. It just gets stuck on the Step 3 "Waiting for connection..." indefinitely. I waited for more than 10 minutes.

The only thing that remains trying is to call Comcast to have them reset the modem from their end, although I don't know if there is any difference in doing that versus doing it myself from the modem's admin web page. Do you know?

Quick question: Someone told me that having both devices running as DHCP servers may be preventing the connection between them. I don't know exactly on which of the two I should disable the DHCP server option to try this. I tried to disable it in the modem but there is no place in the admin web page of the modem to do this. It just says that it is enabled (I read somewhere on the internet that the DHCP server in the modem only actually kicks in when the connection to the ISP drops??).  On the router's admin web page there is an option to disable it. I don't know if this is the one I should use, but anyway, I tried to disable it and click Apply, but it won't take it (the Apply button does not look clickable and it does not save the change). Anyway, the question is: should I attempt to disable DHCP server from one of the two devices as I've been suggested? Would this actually work?

Another question: I have tried this using several ethernet cables, all with the same result. Is there a way to check if the WAN socket on the router is working at all? Maybe it is fried or something? I don't see the socket's light blinking when it is connected to the modem.

More suggestions are welcomed!

Thank you very much for your assistance on this!

Carlos
Title: Re: Cannot connect Almond router with Motorola SB6141 Cable Modem
Post by: LGNilsson on July 10, 2014, 11:34:11 am
The easy way to test the WAN socket is to set up the Almond as a range extender. This does require another wireless network it can connect to though. Once set up as a range extender, the Almond's Ethernet ports are all treated as LAN ports and you can plug in your notebook into the WAN port.
Title: Re: Cannot connect Almond router with Motorola SB6141 Cable Modem
Post by: pete on July 10, 2014, 12:19:37 pm
Quote
The router did not detect the modem after several minutes of waiting, and in spite of that, it did not show me the Step 4 as indicated in the router's guide when the auto-detect fails. It just gets stuck on the Step 3 "Waiting for connection..." indefinitely. I waited for more than 10 minutes.

First and foremost is that WAN LED light on the Almond device is illuminating. 

If it doesn't illuminate (blink) then there is not a physical layer of network connectivity happening. 

To test the LED / Physical connectivity try different cables (which you have sort of done) and different devices connecting to that said WAN port.  Connect your laptop just to test the connectivity; IE: LED.

Quote
The only thing that remains trying is to call Comcast to have them reset the modem from their end, although I don't know if there is any difference in doing that versus doing it myself from the modem's admin web page. Do you know?

Comcast sees the side of the Motorola Modem SB6141 that you do not see.  You see more of a an overview and status of the Motorola SB6141 with limited stuff that you can do with the modem.  That said typically the call center person would have to escalate your call to someone a bit more technical then she or he is.

Quote
Anyway, the question is: should I attempt to disable DHCP server from one of the two devices as I've been suggested? Would this actually work?

DHCP is running for the LAN side of the Almond wired or wireless.  The WAN port on the Almond is getting a DHCP address from the Motorola modem.  You can configure the WAN port for a static IP address rather than a DHCP address.  This though shouldn't really be an issue right now though. 

Almond BUG note for firmware AL1-R199-L301-W33: 

I have not been able to disable the DHCP server on the LAN side via the touchscreen GUI or the WEB GUI.  I can change the IP and reduce the size of the DHCP scope just fine.  With prior Almond firmware I had no issues disabling the DHCP server.  Now this is me an my Almond and I am curious about other users relating to said disabling of DHCP on the LAN side of the Almond.  This is using Firefox as a browser on the LAN side of the Almond.

Quote
Another question: I have tried this using several ethernet cables, all with the same result. Is there a way to check if the WAN socket on the router is working at all? Maybe it is fried or something? I don't see the socket's light blinking when it is connected to the modem.

Yes,

I personally think that this is your only issue right now.  Its at a physical layer of the network connection.

Once you get past this part the rest of the pieces will fall into place.

You can test it in the manner specified above and below.

Just plug in your laptop to the WAN port and look at the LED lamp to see if it blinks.  If it blinks then your WAN port is fine.  If it doesn't blink then your WAN port is not fine. (physically)

At this point (with the laptop plugged in) do a cold reset of the Almond (from scratch pushing the little white button on the Almond).  Look to see if the LED lights up.  That is all you need to do.  If it doesn't light up then you have ruled out that its an issue with the cable but rather a physical issue with the WAN port.

If the Almond LED WAN port lights up then move the cable over to the Motorola SB 6141 en vivo. 

If it continues to light up; then just do a warm reset of the Almond.  The Almond should then get a DHCP address from the Motorola SB6141 and you will be good to go.
Title: Re: Cannot connect Almond router with Motorola SB6141 Cable Modem
Post by: criveraf on July 10, 2014, 02:22:17 pm
Alright. I did the verifications you suggested and this is what I found:

I connected the ethernet cable to a laptop from the WAN port of the router, and the LED lights started blinking!

I did a cold reset on the Almond, leaving the network cable connected to both devices. After the Almond came back, I looked at the WAN LED and it was blinking.

I disconnected the cable from the laptop, leaving the other end still connected to the router and leaving the router undisturbed (not touching/turning off/resetting/etc the router at all) and proceeded to connect it to the modem. The WAN LED did not blink at all after hooking the cable to the modem.

However, as you guys already know, if I connect the modem directly to my laptop I can browse the internet. So we know that the modem socket is working.

I honestly don't know what to make of these findings and what it means or may mean. I find it really weird! Perhaps you guys would know.

FYI, when I do a factory reset on the modem I don't see anything happening on the modem. Lights on the front of the modem don't change, don't turn off or flash, nothing. And the modem's admin web screen does not give any indication of a factory reset in progress once I click on the button and confirm on the popup box to proceed with the factory reset. I just trust it is doing it, but I don't even know when it's done. I just wait like 5 minutes (in some instances I have waited up to 30 mins just to be sure).

Comcast said they cannot do a factory reset of my modem from their end; only a warm reset and other things. They insist everything looks fine from their end.

What you guys think about these findings and what else to do?

I really appreciate all the help you guys are giving me here. Even though we haven't solved the issue yet, I'm learning a lot along the way.

Carlos
Title: Re: Cannot connect Almond router with Motorola SB6141 Cable Modem
Post by: pete on July 10, 2014, 02:36:22 pm
Good news criveraf!

You have proven that its not a physical issue with the Almond WAN network port.  The Almond WAN port and Motorola SB6141 network ports are not broken.

Quote
The WAN LED did not blink at all after hooking the cable to the modem.

This appears to be an odd auto negotiation issue relating to either the Motorola SB 6141 or the Almond.

Googling "Motorola SB 6141 Gb network auto negotiation problems" does have a few hits and its appearing more in the white SB-6141 rather than the black SB-6141. 

So other folks with Motorola SB 6141 modems are having issues similiar to your issue. 

BTW do you have a category 6 patch cable to use?  Really though it would only help with a Gb connection (blue LED on modem)

I am not sure that it would make any different but it doesn't hurt.

Quote
Comcast said they cannot do a factory reset of my modem from their end; only a warm reset and other things. They insist everything looks fine from their end.

Yes they can.

You can too; might be easier to just do it as described above. 

Quote
FYI, when I do a factory reset on the modem I don't see anything happening on the modem. Lights on the front of the modem don't change, don't turn off or flash, nothing. And the modem's admin web screen does not give any indication of a factory reset in progress once I click on the button and confirm on the popup box to proceed with the factory reset. I just trust it is doing it, but I don't even know when it's done. I just wait like 5 minutes (in some instances I have waited up to 30 mins just to be sure).

Do the re-stuff of the Motorola modem like this:  (also maybe switch to Internet Explorer instead of Firefox).  It will take less than five minutes. Watch the LED lights on the Motorola 6141.  A reboot will always shut them off and on one at a time.

1 - Click on Reset All Defaults
2 - wait a minute or so
3 - Click on Restart Cable Modem

ALL of the LED lamps will go off and then on from the top down.  Meanwhile move your cable from the Laptop to the Almond.  Watch the LED on the WAN port of the Almond to see if it goes on.

You cannot break anything.  I have done it a few times here.  It will take a couple of minutes to do its stuff from scratch.  It should connect up right away.

Did the laptop connect to the Motorola SB6141 at Gb or Mb speeds?   

Another thing you can do (but its a waste of a switch) is to connect a network switch Ethernet cable to the Motorola SB 6141 and a second Ethernet cable to the Almond WAN port just to see if that works.
I am guessing that any old switch will do fine for a test.

OR

1 - Connect your laptop to the Motorola 6141 modem
2 - do the reset of the modem as described above (192.168.100.1 web pages)
3 - while resetting; move the cable from you laptop to your Almond (powered off)
4 - power on your Almond and see if the reset configuration of your Motorola SB 6141 makes the Almond LED blink (look there first).

Googling some more on the Motorola SB 6141 issues and fixes found a couple of more "fixes".

1 - Using your laptop connection tick the auto negotiation piece of the laptops network device "off" then "on". Then move the cable from the laptop to the Almond.
2 - Using your laptop connection hard set the network interface to 100Mbps full duplex and leave it that way; move the cable then to the Almond.  IE: in Wintel its System / Hardware / Device Manager / network adapters / network adapter / advanced tab
Title: Re: Cannot connect Almond router with Motorola SB6141 Cable Modem
Post by: criveraf on July 10, 2014, 05:19:01 pm
Pete,

Quote
Another thing you can do (but its a waste of a switch) is to connect a network switch Ethernet cable to the Motorola SB 6141 and a second Ethernet cable to the Almond WAN port just to see if that works.
I am guessing that any old switch will do fine for a test.

What do you mean by "network switch Ethernet cable"? The way you say it seems like it is something different than a regular Ethernet cable. Are they?

Regarding similar issues reported by others, I will google it and see what I can find. Let me know if you find anything I should be aware of.

The laptop connects at Gb speeds with the modem.

My question again, if you know the answer: the modem does not change/turn off lights when I do a factory reset from the admin page (like when doing a normal reboot unplugging the unit). How do I know the factory reset is in progress? How do I know its done resetting?

Thanks,
Carlos
Title: Re: Cannot connect Almond router with Motorola SB6141 Cable Modem
Post by: pete on July 10, 2014, 06:11:52 pm
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What do you mean by "network switch Ethernet cable"? The way you say it seems like it is something different than a regular Ethernet cable. Are they?

Nope.

Just a network switch and connect the Almond and Motorola Modem to the switch with regular network cables.

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My question again, if you know the answer: the modem does not change/turn off lights when I do a factory reset from the admin page (like when doing a normal reboot unplugging the unit). How do I know the factory reset is in progress? How do I know its done resetting?

Typically I lose the network GUI page.   So you would get disconnected if you left the laptop connected while the modem LED lights would go off and start blinking from the top down until it finished rebooting. 

If the lights are not changing then for whatever reason the modem isn't resetting. 

The LEDs on the modem will shut off and go on from top to bottom when rebooting or unplugging the modem then plugging it in or when you are doing a cold reset.

It could just be that the two buttons are disabled in your firmware - just a guess.

None the less; I think hard setting the connection on your laptop to 100Mbps while connected to the Motorola modem might work.  Check to make sure you can surf the web; then remove the network cable from you laptop and plug it into the Almond and see if the Almond LED light goes on.
Title: Re: Cannot connect Almond router with Motorola SB6141 Cable Modem
Post by: criveraf on July 10, 2014, 11:17:14 pm
Thanks pete.

Tried hard setting the laptop to 100 Mps trick and did not work.

I keep trying the factory reset button and nothing happens.

Is there another way to cold reset the modem, other than calling Comcast?

This is too frustrating!

Thanks for your help,
Carlos
Title: Re: Cannot connect Almond router with Motorola SB6141 Cable Modem
Post by: pete on July 10, 2014, 11:54:17 pm
Carlos,

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Tried hard setting the laptop to 100 Mps trick and did not work.

Hard set the notebook to 100Mbps and reboot the Motorola modem.  It should connect.  It appears that the modem is stuck at a Gb connection and that is why it will not connect to the Almond.

This is an issue.  The Motorola modem should drop down to 100Mbps speed.

I only know of the GUI way to reset the modem.

I've attached the manual which does say that the reset should work.

Title: Re: Cannot connect Almond router with Motorola SB6141 Cable Modem
Post by: LGNilsson on July 11, 2014, 12:08:22 am
At this point, you might also want to contact Motorola for support, as if the modem really is stuck at Gigabit speed only, the Almond wouldn't be able to communicate with it, as it's only 10/100Mbps.
Title: Re: Cannot connect Almond router with Motorola SB6141 Cable Modem
Post by: pete on July 11, 2014, 06:30:04 am
Initially on my purchased SB6141 from Amazon.  I did have some issues with it relating to registration to CC.  That said I did go to the Comcast forum and asked a guru 3rd level CC support person on the forum to have a look at my modem.  He did and did make some adjustments to it and its been working fine since.

I also bought the identical SB6141 for neighbors, sisters and sister in law. 

I registered the same said Motorola SB 6141 modems with Comcast with no issues and they are all up and fine today.

The above noted I think what happened is that an ISP (whomever) initially cancelled said order of Motorola SB6141's and they were dumped by vendor on Amazon and Ebay.  Note that these were new Motorola 6141 modems.  Many people purchased them.  It is a stock Motorola modem which will work with any ISP using cable today.

Thinking back I think my original purchase price was some $40 each.

Relating to the use of Motorola modems best non biased posts are here:

http://www.dslreports.com/forum/motorola (http://www.dslreports.com/forum/motorola)

Relating to fixing your purchased modem by a CC tech look here and post a message relating to your modem issues:

http://forums.comcast.com/ (http://forums.comcast.com/)

The direction is that they do not really want to touch a modem that is not theirs to touch. (push of renting equipment instead).

The CC techs on the forum are guru's way beyond the folks you call for CC support. 

They can and will help you because its all about customer service.

BTW there is a physical button to reset the modem.

The reset on the SB 6141 is under the plastic gummed to the front. Take it off and it's at the bottom. The plastic cover goes back on well.

The reset "should" fix the network port connectivity issue. 

Note that you may need to reregister the modem. 

If you do that do that with the Almond connected at 100Mbps and connect your laptop to one of the network ports on the Almond.
Title: Re: Cannot connect Almond router with Motorola SB6141 Cable Modem
Post by: criveraf on July 12, 2014, 02:15:02 pm
Hey guys,

Thanks for all the tips and help you have provided these past days. I had to take a break cause this is exhausting! I'm back trying to get this thing fixed.

Pete said:
Quote
Hard set the notebook to 100Mbps and reboot the Motorola modem.  It should connect.  It appears that the modem is stuck at a Gb connection and that is why it will not connect to the Almond.

This is an issue.  The Motorola modem should drop down to 100Mbps speed.

I should have given more details. What I did was this: I hard-set the network card of my laptop to 100Mbps, connected directly to the modem, the modem turned the "Link" light in front of the modem to amber indicating a slower speed connection to the laptop as expected. Then browsed the internet successfully. I proceeded to connect the modem to the router and the router to the laptop, but the WAN LED on the router did not lit. I was not able to access the internet on the laptop.

Resetting the modem from the admin web page is still not working for some reason.

Lars said:
Quote
At this point, you might also want to contact Motorola for support, as if the modem really is stuck at Gigabit speed only, the Almond wouldn't be able to communicate with it, as it's only 10/100Mbps

Lars, what do you mean the Almond is only 10/100Mbps? It does not handle 1Gbps connections to the modem?

Pete said:
Quote
Initially on my purchased SB6141 from Amazon.  I did have some issues with it relating to registration to CC.  That said I did go to the Comcast forum and asked a guru 3rd level CC support person on the forum to have a look at my modem.  He did and did make some adjustments to it and its been working fine since.

Pete, I'm a bit confused... what do you mean by "CC"? I thought you were talking about Comcast, but then I see you refer to them separately.

Also, can you forward me the names/usernames of those gurus you talked to, if you remember them? I would like to contact them.

Quote
BTW there is a physical button to reset the modem.

The reset on the SB 6141 is under the plastic gummed to the front. Take it off and it's at the bottom. The plastic cover goes back on well.

I took the front plastic halfway off (from the bottom) and did not see any sort of button there... :(

Carlos
Title: Re: Cannot connect Almond router with Motorola SB6141 Cable Modem
Post by: criveraf on July 12, 2014, 02:29:33 pm
It occurs to me now.... the reason I purchased a new modem was to acquire more speed but also because the old modem was kaput... I went on vacation and came back to realize the internet was down at home and after checking the modem, it would not turn on at all. One of my neighbors said a lightning struck one of my trees in my backyard during a storm while I was on vacation. In the past I have learned not to believe everything my neighbor says, and the trees look all fine to me, though, but anyways.... my old modem was dead so his story might be at least somewhat true... I don't know... Now, I kind of don't believe my Almond was affected because it turns on, I can establish a wireless network at home (all devices can see each other fine), LED lights lit on the back as we have tested here, etc. I tend to think that if my Almond router was affected by the lightning it would have fried the device as it happened to the old modem, or at least it would have been noticeable almost right away that it damaged something (like when I said the WAN LED would not flash, but we already tested that it flashes when I connect the laptop to this WAN plug). And, besides, I have tried to connect my old router, which could not have been affected by the lightning (if the lightning really happened) because it was stored away, and the old router cannot see the modem either, just like the Almond cannot see the modem.

What do you guys think...?

Carlos
Title: Re: Cannot connect Almond router with Motorola SB6141 Cable Modem
Post by: pete on July 13, 2014, 09:47:22 am
Carlos,

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do you mean the Almond is only 10/100Mbps?

Yes.  A hard set of your laptop to 100Mbps with a connection to the modem at 100Mbps and a reconnect to the Almond Plus should have worked.  Having written this and that it didn't work is indicative that the problem your Motorola modem (documented in many forums).

CC=Comcast

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Also, can you forward me the names/usernames of those gurus you talked to, if you remember them? I would like to contact them.

I do not but they are the admins of the CC forum section under the routers subsections.

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I took the front plastic halfway off (from the bottom) and did not see any sort of button there...

Which modem do you have?  The black one or the white one?

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purchased a new modem was to acquire more speed but also because the old modem was kaput.

Faster than 100Mbps is here from Comcast.  But it is mostly with a fiber connection and one tier is over 100Mpbs.

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•Extreme 105: 105 Mbps / 20 Mbps [105000 Kbps / 20000 Kbps] ( DOCSIS 3.0 tier )
•Extreme 305: 305 Mbps / 65 Mbps [305000 Kbps / 65000 Kbps] ( Fiber To The Home / FTTH tier )
•Extreme 505: 505 Mbps / 100 Mbps [505000 Kbps / 100000 Kbps] ( Fiber To The Home / FTTH tier ) **Upgrade

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What do you guys think...?

Lightning damage is in a different world.  Here I have the home protected from surges and good grounding everywhere.  I automate my irrigation using two controllers which did get zapped by lightning some 10 years ago.  It sounds like your Almond Plus is fine as it connects to your laptop at Gb or Mb speeds.  The only thing we have to go forward with is the documented issues with the Motorola Modem as posted on the internet; really though this is probably related to the configuration of modem provided to you by CC hard and soft (configuration and firmware).
Title: Re: Cannot connect Almond router with Motorola SB6141 Cable Modem
Post by: criveraf on July 20, 2014, 07:44:04 pm
Hello Pete,

Thanks for replying to my last post and the info. I was out the whole week on vacation, so this is the first time I read your post.

With regards to not finding a reset button on the front of the modem (behind the front plastic plate) my Motorola modem is the white one. Is it different from the black one (besides the color)? You wouldn't know where the reset button is in this white one, would you?

With regards to the issue being the modem, the one I currently have is a second unit. I initially purchased a white SB6141 on a Monday two weeks ago and exchanged it the next day for a new one thinking that one was bad. So I am under the assumption this second one is not bad. I then also assume that when you say that the issue is the modem you are talking about configuration and not whether it is bad or not.

I really don' t know what else to do. A Comcast guy came here, inspected the connections (to the modem, to the router, to the laptop) and could not find the cause of the issue. He talked to his guys in Comcast to have it registered in their system and, again, there was connection to the internet to the modem and hooked to the laptop, but not when putting the router between them.

I will visit the Comcast web site and open a new question there. Hopefully a guru will answer and I can find a solution.

Thank you very much to you and Lars for all the help. I will still keep this topic in case I have other questions for you guys. Also, if you think of anything else, please let me know. I am receiving new post notifications in my email, so I will check back.

Thanks,
Carlos
Title: Re: Cannot connect Almond router with Motorola SB6141 Cable Modem
Post by: LGNilsson on July 20, 2014, 09:09:16 pm
I'll make sure we get one in for testing as well. We have an engineer located on the west coast, although I'm not sure what service provider he's with.
Title: Re: Cannot connect Almond router with Motorola SB6141 Cable Modem
Post by: criveraf on July 20, 2014, 10:30:26 pm
Thanks Lars.

Here is the link to my post in the Comcast forums:

http://forums.comcast.com/t5/Home-Networking-Router-WiFi/No-connection-between-Motorola-SB6141-white-and-Securifi-Almond/td-p/2239030

I think I summarized everything pretty well. Crossing fingers!

Carlos
Title: Re: Cannot connect Almond router with Motorola SB6141 Cable Modem
Post by: criveraf on July 21, 2014, 10:20:32 pm
Do any of you guys know the instructions to return the Almond to Securifi and obtain a new one in exchange?
Title: Re: Cannot connect Almond router with Motorola SB6141 Cable Modem
Post by: LGNilsson on July 21, 2014, 10:48:46 pm
Just ping our support team and they'll help you out http://www.securifi.com/support
Title: Re: Cannot connect Almond router with Motorola SB6141 Cable Modem
Post by: criveraf on July 22, 2014, 12:33:55 am
Quote
Another thing you can do (but its a waste of a switch) is to connect a network switch Ethernet cable to the Motorola SB 6141 and a second Ethernet cable to the Almond WAN port just to see if that works.
I am guessing that any old switch will do fine for a test.

HOLY GUACAMOLE!!!! I re-tried this suggestion (putting a switch between the modem and the router) and IT WORKED!!!!!!!!! That to me means one thing: that both the router and the modem seem to be operational and perhaps none are bad/damaged.

However, this also raises a big question that I hope you guys can explain: WHY???!!!! Why a switch between them makes them see each other and not on a direct connection???

This switch is very old. The modem is still working at a lower speed (the ethernet link indicator on the front of the modem is amber instead of blue).

I really need a rationale here.... Why this is working this way?  And if you guys have a logical and accurate explanation, maybe we could figure out the real fix to the modem/router direct connection issue, perhaps by configuration or something?
Title: Re: Cannot connect Almond router with Motorola SB6141 Cable Modem
Post by: LGNilsson on July 22, 2014, 12:53:26 am
 ??? ??? ???

That's about as odd as it gets and I'm afraid I have no answer to your question as to why.

The Almond is only 10/100, but it's possible that somehow the modem doesn't sense the speed correctly or vice versa so the two don't communicate.

We've got one of the white modems in for testing with our west coast based engineer and we'll try to replicate your issue.
Title: Re: Cannot connect Almond router with Motorola SB6141 Cable Modem
Post by: t0dbld on March 16, 2015, 09:51:09 am
Nearly 1 year and still no solution to this is unacceptable. Motorola is pretty much the standard in docsis  3 cable modems, how was this not thoroughly tested pre-production is beyond me.  Also the exclusion of a gigabyte port was more than an oversight......... fooled me once
Title: Re: Cannot connect Almond router with Motorola SB6141 Cable Modem
Post by: pete on March 22, 2015, 09:47:01 am
Welcome to the Securifi forum t0dbld.

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Nearly 1 year and still no solution to this is unacceptable.

The solution above using a older switch worked.  The issue is/was relating to the auto sensing LAN port network interface on the Motorola Modem.  Here I had some issues relating to the autosensing Motorola Gb connection to an Intel NIC on my firewall.  The Motorola SB-6141 NIC issues are well documented on many different ISP forums.  The 10/100Mbs network port on the Almond is there by design. 

Yeah it is more than the ISP firmware / configurations on your Motorola SB6141 and relating whether you purchased it 3rd party or got it from your ISP.

It is understood that the Almond / Almond 2015 has 10/100 Mbps NIC ports versus the Almond + having 10/100/1000 Gbs.

It was relating to what the ISP wanted to do with the modem such that the same said ISP provided modems typically cause no issues.

The trending today though is the purchase / lease of a combination modem, router, firewall, access point, switch provided by your ISP, providing free local wireless access and managed by your local ISP with a support charge (aside from monthly) for any changes you want to do with the device (internally); this a bit late in the game as purely from the standpoint of internet access the bigger players will just push out the old legacy stuff soon. 

Here personally never did purchase/lease any internet devices from ISP.  I had to go with the Verizon FIOS combo box and just bridged one port on the device to my own firewall and use their device for the STB's only today. 

The cable modem's while with Docis 3.0 (2006) can push go over 100Mbs; most ISP providers didn't offer these speeds to residential connections unless you paid a premium for your connection.  That said the "game" is changing and new base internet speeds are around the corner. 

Today unrelated to the Almond I have multiple devices connected to the 1Gb Motorola SB 6141 and they work fine.  This is my 4th Motorola modem purchase in 15 years now.  Arris purchased Motorola and changed production facilities such that the Arris modem is probably similiar in design but not the same these days.

Arris bought Motorola's cable business from Google. Part of that agreement means Arris has some amount of time to use the "stylized M logo" Motorola is known for. After that you won't see these modems branded as Motorola, they will simply be Arris SURFboard/Touchstone. In that thread you'll see white and black/other colors of modems from them. The white modems will be retail and have the SURFboard moniker, the black MSO modems with have the Touchstone branding. During the transition you'll see mixes of those brands until it finally settles down into its more static format.

Here is a quickie snapshot of some of 8 interfaces on my firewall today (one WAN connection is connected to the Motorola SB6141).

Here I do multiple a la carte internet streaming, have multiple cloud connections, et al and never exceed and go way less than 100Mbs of throughput on my Motorola SB6141.
Title: Re: Cannot connect Almond router with Motorola SB6141 Cable Modem
Post by: LGNilsson on March 23, 2015, 02:31:21 am
Yes, contact the support team, they'll help you.