Securifi Community Forum
Sensors and Home Automation => Home automation => Topic started by: obmd1 on May 10, 2015, 08:32:57 pm
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So I have two kinds of sensors at the edge of the range for Zwave from Almond+. I have two GE binary Wall switches that parked fine, work fine, although I needed to move the Almond closer to their location for initial paring. I also have a motion sensor, the weather proof Aeon one proven to be compatible, that apparently is out of range where I would like to put it.
I tried this: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00K7QZUZM/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1, which connects fine, but as an "unsupported device". I don't think it's extending the range of Z wave, as the sensor I am using still doesn't behave correctly with it.
Does anyone have experience with extending the range of Zwave for Almond+?
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I believe Z-Wave is a mesh network, so you could just put any supported Z-wave device between the two other sensors.
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Good point. And it that's the case this motion sensor is not working right.
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Not all Z-Wave devices will act as a repeater but most AC (line powered) ones will (not all though) and there are devices that are specifically designed to be repeaters (such as the Amazon link). As a note I do not see a single repeater listed in the wiki as a supported device or in the forums but many things are supported that ALSO act as a repeater. This is one of those tough things to prove though as it is not like we can see the wireless signals NOR does the average user have any access to specialized equipment that could sense it directly (unlike most people can do with WIFI and their smartphone with an app).
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The devices furthest away at this time are the GE in wall switches. They are clearly not repeating. Work in progress.
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I've tried everything. The range on the multi-sensor is too short, and the repeater isn't repeating. Back to the drawing board.
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Is the Peanut a Zwave device or Zigbee? If Zwave, does it act as an range extender? If not, are there any recommendations?
I'm looking for a zwave range extender for my Kwikset 910 Zwave Deadbolt.
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Peanut Plug is Zigbee. Unfortunately I do not have a good recommendation for a repeater. I have Z-Wave wall switches AND Z-Wave motion detectors. Both are supposed to be repeaters (when line powered for the motion detectors and all of mine are) but it does not seem to help things at all. I can have one motion detector working, move another one 1 ft further (through a wall, but still) and it no longer works. This is one area where I really wish some company came out with a CHEAP Z-Wave (and Zigbee) signal detector. So I could do signal strength mapping like you can do with an app for most cellphones and your WIFI.
I have actually been debating about seeing if any other hub has signal-strengths and maybe getting one for that purpose, to act as a diagnostic tool. Tough to recommend and work on other people's setups without useful tools. Not that I am looking to make a business out of this though, or even be "tech support" for people.
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I've seen a Aeotec range extender on Amazon.com for less the $30. Can't say how it would work or if it's even supported.
It also seems like the signal isn't being repeated on my network also.
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I've seen that Aeontec Repeater on Amazon before. One reviewer made me had doubts it would work as a repeater:
By Marco Bitran on July 15, 2014
I was trying to use this to repeat signals from a Vera Lite -> Schlage Z-Wave locks. This provides a very weak signal. This problem may only occur when transmitting secure signals (which the locks require) - I'm not sure. But for this purpose it did not work. I ended up using a Schlage Dimmer Light Module (also available on Amazon) which worked MUCH better.
Maybe I'll try that Schlage Dimmer Light Module (http://www.amazon.com/Schlage-RP200RNX-SL-Dimmer-Intelligence/dp/B0084Z0YJ0/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1433574768&sr=8-1&keywords=Schlage+Dimmer+Light+Module), and hope it pairs with Almond+.
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That is the problem for me. I have no way of knowing if they are working as repeaters or not, or if it something about the Almond+ and the network. I would think the Almond+ has to be working with the repeating aspect also. I do not know how I could have the switches AND motion sensors, neither of which are repeating? Two different manufacturers and very different items. The way I am currently testing is with a motion sensor. They are the only Z-Wave devices I have that are portable AND they have batteries also (they will not work as a repeater, per the manual, when on batteries only though). So I move the motion sensor to a further spot and usually plug it back into the wall also, then see if my Almond+ shows any status as I move in front of it. So far no luck.
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Interesting, I moved the peanut to the same location as my Kwikset Z-wave Deadbolt, and the peanut pairs and works flawlessly. And the Kwikset isn't working. When I move the Almond+ close to the Kwikset, it works well. So what is happening?
Is Zigbee's range better than Z-wave?
Or is it because the Peanut is connected directly to a power source, so it's signal is stronger, therefore it's range is better?
Or is it both?
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IMO:
Both. I am not a radio signals engineer by any means... but ZigBee and Z-Wave do not use the same frequencies... So there could be many things there (interference, impact of walls or other materials, etc...). Something that is powered by the line versus batteries can also provide more power/more functionality IF it is designed to.
There could be other factors also (no absolutes of course):
1) Optimization that Securifi could do between their two products (or at least that they could have the Peanut Plug manufacturer do).
2) Reflection benefits. There was a WIFI visualization that an engineer did not too long ago mapping the WIFI in his apartment. One thing he found, once it was all displayed, was how much the WIFI signal would bounce off other things and could sometimes have a much stronger signal in odd spots where it was totally unexpected.
3) Other ZigBee devices acting as repeaters?
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I bought a GE/Jasco 45604 Binary on/off plug-in switch. It's in the list of compatibility devices (http://wiki.securifi.com/index.php?title=List_of_compatible_sensors_-_Almond%2B_2014). Hope it'll extend the range. Will report in a few days.
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As a note for those who don't know, most battery powered devices will not repeat the network, additionally, security devices such as locks and dead bolts I don't believe they all repeat the network but I could be mistaken. Also, when pairing you should be within 1 foot for optimal connection and security.
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The reason I started the thread was that the GE in wall binary on/off switch on the wiki listed as tested with A+ does NOT rebroadcast. I have a multi-sensor that loses the network NEXT to them. Further, the Aeon labs repeater does not work with A+. The take home message is carefully look at even the hard wired sensors and switches you are looking at.
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The reason I started the thread was that the GE in wall binary on/off switch on the wiki listed as tested with A+ does NOT rebroadcast. I have a multi-sensor that loses the network NEXT to them. Further, the Aeon labs repeater does not work with A+. The take home message is carefully look at even the hard wired sensors and switches you are looking at.
If you have the multi sensor next to the GE binary, it "should" use the GE binary as a repeater node, but if it can see the control hub, it may not. Depends on how sophisticated the routing is on the GE binary (what rev/gen level ZWave they are using). I was looking at the GE switches and some of them are older. In any case, the routing issue could be in any of the devices. Would have to dig into some logs to find out.
Thanks for providing the feedback. I'm getting some binary switches and intending to use them as repeaters. Still on the fence about the multi sensor but it looks interesting.
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It works!
I paired the GE/Jasco 45604 (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0013V58HU?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00) the Almond+ and confirmed it working. Then I plugged it in an area that's roughly the mid-distance between the Almond+ and the Kwikset deadbolt. And voila, after a few mins, I could lock and unlock the deadbolt from Almond+ interface.
So the GE/Jasco 45604 can be a good Z-Wave range extender.
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Excellent
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Good news. Looks like I might be grabbing one just to see if some of the current problems I have will be resolved.
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I also have Kwikset deadbolts, after reading the success in this thread ordered 2x of the GE/Jasco 45604's. With an Alarm.com G2 panel still can't control the basement door @ my house. The door handle is 3 feet from the 45604 and the switch works great. I also have several other z-wave switches much farther out than this lock that all work great. I have tried 3 different manufacturers of dead bolts with no luck so I was excited when I saw this thread.... Still bummed
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Sorry to resurrect this old thread, but anyone found a good Z-Wave secure-signal repeater. I have 2 Schlage z-wave locks that are seemingly too far from A+.
Does anyone know if this Aeon Labs Aeotec Z-Wave Switch could be used as a repeater for secure z-wave commands:
http://www.amazon.com/Aeon-Labs-Aeotec-Z-Wave-Switch/dp/B00VQISOCG/ref=pd_sim_147_29?ie=UTF8&dpID=41tM57UJ6IL&dpSrc=sims&preST=_AC_UL160_SR160%2C160_&refRID=1440YWCG7P9CPR7MHZ89
After all, it's wall powered and zwave-plus?
Andy
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@ Andy,
This http://www.amazon.com/Aeon-Labs-Extender-Repeater-DSD37-ZWUS/dp/B00K7QZUZM seems to work just fine, even though it shows unknown sensor, however, let me recheck once again and let you know.
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I just picked up one of the GE outdoor switches from Lowe's for $12.50. Ymmv...
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This is the recurring requrements explanation on various forums:
Here are some requirements for the repeaters to work for the door lock:
1) The Door lock must have FLiRs enabled (repeater allows beaming which allows the repeater to wake up the doorlock).
2) The door lock and repeater must see each other as neighbors
Some suggestions to force the door lock and repeater to see each other as neighbors.
1) Re-include the door lock after the repeater has been included
into the network to force the doorlock to see the repeater as a
potential neighbor. (This method may require you to move the gateway
closer since the repeater does not support NWI).
2) Wake up the door lock, and run a network heal or optimization to update neighbor nodes
What's FLiRs (besides forward-looking infrared)? Is there such a thing as network healing or optimization in Almond+?
Also, since z-wave is supposed to be a mesh network by definition, aren't all the mains-powered z-wave devices supposed to be repeaters, especially the zwave+ ones?
Thanks,
Andy
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@ Andy,
Ideally, yes almost all the main power supply switches would act as repeaters, but we can't give 100% guarantee because it depends on vendor. The following we have tested and it is working as Repeater.
http://www.amazon.com/GE-Wireless-Lighting-Control-Appliance/dp/B0013V58HU/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1451392654&sr=8-3-fkmr0&keywords=ZL7201+Z-Wave+Plug-in
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Thanks Ashok,
What SigmaDesigns is telling us is that zwave+ (500 series) devices are backwards compatible with regular zwave. So, based on that, my preference would be to future-proof my investment and obtain zwave+ devices instead of regular zwave.
However, in your experience, do zwave+ (500 series) devices work better or worse than their regular zwave counterparts? I understand, that some of the specific zwave+ functionality will not work out of the box with A+, like ota updates, etc
My preference also lies with Aeon Labs devices, as they have embedded power monitoring as well. And even if Almond+ may not be currently supporting certain capabilities, these products are mainstream enough that, i am sure, the support will come at some point in the very distant future, perhaps when 0.84 is released...
Andy
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@ Andy,
You are most welcome. Unfortunately, Almond+ is not 500 series, however, there are few Z-wave plus devices which work fine with basic functionality like repeater. If you