Securifi Community Forum
Sensors and Home Automation => Home automation => Topic started by: intrepidpursuit on May 21, 2016, 02:25:20 pm
-
My home automation hub died, so rather than jump right into a new one I thought I'd see how far my Almond+ has come in the 3 years since I bought it. They are advertising it as a Home Automation hub on Amazon now and no one has sued them, so it must have made some progress since I last used it. So I updated my software and started adding devices.
I have been slow to add things so I only have a few items:
Nest Thermostat
Schlage Z-Wave Lock (bought specifically because Securifi said it was compatible back then)
Several Osram Lightify Color Temp Adjustable Zigbee light bulbs
A few GE Z-Wave dimmers
I control all these from my Android phone.
I found the following:
Lightify bulbs are in the official compatibility list, but the Almond+ says they are incompatible. It can dim them and turn them on and off individually, but the color temp control doesn't work. Because it lists them as incompatible, it won't let me add them to any scenes or rules, so they are completely useless.
The Schlage lock is no longer on the compatible list. I assume this is because of the same issues I had before and that required resetting it to factory to get it to work again. So I decided not to try connecting it.
There is nowhere to add a Nest to the Almond+. They say it is compatible, but you clearly can't control it or use it's away sensor functions. This one is a bit baffling, but I've checked every menu and there is nothing.
The Z-Wave dimmers, to my surprise at this point, worked perfectly. So that is something.
The Android App is incompatible with Android N to the point that it crashes completely if you try to login to your account. This is a known issue that they have said they do not intend to fix until N is out of beta. So I was unable to use the app.
So, if I want to turn my dimmers on and off from the front of my router, it is great. I don't.
Playing around with the rules a bit using the computer interface, I found them to be still extremely rudimentary. If you want lights to turn on when you come home, you can do that. But you can't determine how often a rule is run, so if you want it turn on your lights if your phone connects between the hours of 5 and 8pm, it will do it, but if you turn them off they'll just turn back on again at a random later time. You can set up scenes with compatible devices, but you can't trigger a scene from a rule, so they are only useful for turning lights on and off from your phone (not mine, but someone's). The ability to use a wifi connection as a sensor is cool and a great example of the potential of a router home automation combination.
This many bugs is not worth spending days going back and forth on the forums trying to find work arounds. This is clearly still a beta device at the end of its life (the home automation bits still say "BETA" right on them after all). I'm not a very patient person, but I'm very glad I didn't wait around for a fix if 3 years later it is still a mess.
edits in italics
-
Everyone has an opinion, sounds like yours is grinding an axe. ::)
Using a beta OS on a smartphone and then blaming a vendor for not supporting a beta OS w/ released software is just one example. And Securifi stated that it would be resolved by the time N came out of beta. I've only got about 100 apps that aren't working in N, which is why N isn't my primary OS yet. The risks of beta, no?
Not being able to include a given light in a scene doesn't make it "completely useless" by your own admission just a few words previous to that statement, "it can dim them and turn them on and off". Nice to see you place such value on Scenes though.
Two Schlage locks are listed in the compatibility list, not excluded. The FE599 and the BE369 are listed as compatible. Are one of these the lock to which you refer? Which Firmware version are you running on the A+? I've not run into the "incompatible" issue w/ the locks.
Found the rules to be "extremely" rudimentary? Hardly
And no, the lights don't just turn back on at a random time, some time later as stated in your example. I do in fact use rules to generate pseudo scenes activated by the presence sensors and they work flawlessly in fact. The only issue is when I transition to a different ruleset for that given device at a specific time, but another rule resolves that concern.
Triggering a Scene from a Rule is a nifty feature idea, but then again, Rules effectively define Scenes on their own so it would be redundant albeit convenient under certain circumstances. Certainly not a show stopper though, given that you can define the exact same actions from the Rules interface.
As for spending "days" on forums, and if by that you mean actually spending 24 given hours online to resolve an issue, that is more than just a little overreaching imho. If logging into a forum from time to time, spending minutes at a time to check on something of specific interest is too onerous an activity, surprised you are using a beta OS like N in the first place. Now you didn't mention your current home automation hub which "died" but I'll wager there's a forum out there for that and likely the stock interface is insufficient to achieve the same level of automation as the A+ AND does not provide WiFi routing. Not that you mentioned what you were using for WiFi routing, has it been the A+?
Regarding the "beta" product being at the end of it's life, do you read somewhere that it has gone End of Life, as in no further support? Because Securifi has stated the precise opposite. Perhaps you mean that the WiFi isn't 'fast enough'? Hardly the case.
Nope, sounds like predisposed to slam the product and have rationalized doing so.
Best of luck with your "new" home automation hub, whatever it may be.
-
This is a helpful forum and we would like to help, but you need to give us some information to help you out.
So in case, you're here to see if you can get some HA stuff working on Almond+, help us help you.
What's the firmware you're on?
There is nowhere to add a Nest to the Almond+. They say it is compatible, but you clearly can't control it or use it's away sensor functions. This one is a bit baffling, but I've checked every menu and there is nothing..
(https://i.sli.mg/7SEE01.png)
This is how you can add a Nest in the Devices section. I am surprised as to how you've checked every menu and missed this fairly self-explanatory button
I am using Schlage and Kwikset Z-wave locks and they have been working perfectly well. Again, your model number would help.
You've written a pretty long post. An additional 3-4 words with firmware and model numbers would have enabled us to try and figure out what's wrong.
-
Everyone has an opinion, sounds like yours is grinding an axe. ::)
Using a beta OS on a smartphone and then blaming a vendor for not supporting a beta OS w/ released software is just one example. And Securifi stated that it would be resolved by the time N came out of beta. I've only got about 100 apps that aren't working in N, which is why N isn't my primary OS yet. The risks of beta, no?
I never switch to a new OS until there is a stable beta and there have been alpha builds for at least a few months. There are bugs, but there are no other apps that are rendered completely useless in my collection. It is up to securifi whether they want to leave this user group stranded or fix a problem they will have to fix anyway.
Not being able to include a given light in a scene doesn't make it "completely useless" by your own admission just a few words previous to that statement, "it can dim them and turn them on and off". Nice to see you place such value on Scenes though.
I have rooms full of bulbs that all have to be individually controlled from the app (or in my case, the web interface). If your idea of HA is to walk into a room and then launch an app, navigate to the right page and then flip a half dozen switches individually before the lights come on, then we have very different expectations. I could work around the incompatibility (despite the website saying they are officially compatible) if I could add them to rules and scenes to make them respond to group commands, but I can't. So they are useless to me.
Two Schlage locks are listed in the compatibility list, not excluded. The FE599 and the BE369 are listed as compatible. Are one of these the lock to which you refer? Which Firmware version are you running on the A+? I've not run into the "incompatible" issue w/ the locks.
We are clearly not looking in the same place. https://www.securifi.com/sensors. The only locks listed now are from Yale, Vision, and Poly-Control.
Found the rules to be "extremely" rudimentary? Hardly
And no, the lights don't just turn back on at a random time, some time later as stated in your example. I do in fact use rules to generate pseudo scenes activated by the presence sensors and they work flawlessly in fact. The only issue is when I transition to a different ruleset for that given device at a specific time, but another rule resolves that concern.
Again, we have different expectations. Have you used any other HA? There may be more hidden functionality in the Almond+ then I realize since the long list of other problems prevented me from setting up anything useful to try. Perhaps "extremely" is over stating, but they are very rudimentary compared to other systems out there.
Triggering a Scene from a Rule is a nifty feature idea, but then again, Rules effectively define Scenes on their own so it would be redundant albeit convenient under certain circumstances. Certainly not a show stopper though, given that you can define the exact same actions from the Rules interface.
Again, when you have rooms full of individual bulbs, individually defining them over and over is ridiculous.
As for spending "days" on forums, and if by that you mean actually spending 24 given hours online to resolve an issue, that is more than just a little overreaching imho. If logging into a forum from time to time, spending minutes at a time to check on something of specific interest is too onerous an activity, surprised you are using a beta OS like N in the first place. Now you didn't mention your current home automation hub which "died" but I'll wager there's a forum out there for that and likely the stock interface is insufficient to achieve the same level of automation as the A+ AND does not provide WiFi routing. Not that you mentioned what you were using for WiFi routing, has it been the A+?
I've already spent days trying to resolve issues with the Almond+ about 18 months ago. Most of the answers were "nope, it can't do that or control that" so I gave up. Many of those issues seem to still exist, so development has gone almost nowhere in that time it seems. I don't want to go through all the effort again. I'm busy, I want something that works.
I was using a Wink hub. They have had some hardware problems and mine died (Firmware fails to update and won't do certain tasks without updating. Their tech support has confirmed it is hardware problem). Their development has slowed down (still faster than Securifi at fixing major bugs) so I decided I'd rather change to something more powerful than buy another Wink. The software on Wink is miles ahead of Almond. The features are different and there are some small things that Almond+ does that Wink does not, but for the most part it is much easier to accomplish what you want to do. Yes, I'm using the A+ as a wifi router and it is fairly good at that. As good as a $70 TP-Link. The HA is the part that does not work to satisfaction which is why I posted in that forum.
Regarding the "beta" product being at the end of it's life, do you read somewhere that it has gone End of Life, as in no further support? Because Securifi has stated the precise opposite. Perhaps you mean that the WiFi isn't 'fast enough'? Hardly the case.
Nope, sounds like predisposed to slam the product and have rationalized doing so.
Best of luck with your "new" home automation hub, whatever it may be.
They are releasing the Almond 3 are they not? Do you think they will carry that and the Almond+ in parallel? End of Life means no longer made, not necessarily no longer supported. It is baffling that the home automation features are still Beta as they move into their 3rd generation product. I would have never bought it if it hadn't been a kickstarter with big promises that have yet to be fully fulfilled.
I'm looking to switch to the Vera Plus. It has user experience issues, which is why I stayed away from the older versions. They allow users to make their own changes and additions up to their skill level, so I should not run into too many "can't do" situations, just a few PITA situations. A friend of mine with a similar skillset has it and he is very happy with it, so I'll give it a shot.
The purpose of this post was to see what reactions there were and if anyone wanted to help resolve these issues without me laying them out in detail in several different threads as I did last time. Your response tells me you are very passionate about Almond+ and are willing to ignore its glaring flaws. Good for you. No help to me. Thanks anyway.
-
This is a helpful forum and we would like to help, but you need to give us some information to help you out.
So in case, you're here to see if you can get some HA stuff working on Almond+, help us help you.
What's the firmware you're on?
(https://i.sli.mg/7SEE01.png)
This is how you can add a Nest in the Devices section. I am surprised as to how you've checked every menu and missed this fairly self-explanatory button
I am using Schlage and Kwikset Z-wave locks and they have been working perfectly well. Again, your model number would help.
You've written a pretty long post. An additional 3-4 words with firmware and model numbers would have enabled us to try and figure out what's wrong.
You are right, I did not try the web app add devices menu, only the android and on screen options. So on the screen you can only add Zigbee, Z-Wave, and Hue devices, and on the web app you can only add Nest devices. Why in the world? You realize that even accessing the web app requires you to know the router's local IP address and enter it into your browser right? I set up enterprise class networks, but the average user has no idea how to do that without step by step instruction. If that is self explanatory for a customer facing interface then I guess we differ on the meaning of the term.
I'm running the current firmware, I mentioned that in my post. The web app doesn't let you copy/paste that info and I'm not going to copy down a 16+ character code to prove I pressed "check for update" recently.
If the lock isn't officially supported (https://www.securifi.com/rg/sensors it is not) then I'm not going to risk adding it and wiping the codes in there. It is a long process to reset and re add them all and a couple are for friends and I don't have them written down. When you say perfectly well, can you see whether it is locked or not from Android? Can you add and remove codes from Android? Will it remove it without breaking the connection and forcing a reset? Those were the biggest problems before and unlocking my door from the screen on my router was not very useful.
Thank you for your help. Unfortunately there are many other issues and I've already searched the forums thoroughly and found many others with the same problems. Posting log files and model numbers for every device is exactly what I've already done once and am not willing to do again when it is clear they are still not fixed.
-
At least you gave it another try. I do understand your frustration as I sit here looking at an Almond app that swears to me my bedroom light is on while I turn my head 90deg to confirm my bedroom light is most decidedly off. Sure, hitting the button does toggle the light into another state, but if I can never be 100% certain that the state I being told is correct, then I really have no good reason to begin basing my HA backbone on it, do I? I have been focusing on running my HA stuff with Home Assistant as much as possible, bypassing Almond's HA UI & app. I plan to keep using them in the future simply because I like the ease of deployability purely for wifi coverage. After having dealt with horribly non functional DLink routers & repeaters, the Almond line has been very good to me in terms of getting connections out to where I need them. But full-on HA?...mehhhhh.
-
Your initial post did not sound like you were seeking any "help", just providing a status and why you weren't going to be using an Almond+.
Compatible Sensor List
https://wiki.securifi.com/index.php/List_of_compatible_sensors_-_Almond%2B_2014
Incompatible Sensor List
https://wiki.securifi.com/index.php/List_of_incompatible_sensors_-_Almond%2B_2014
Having developed IOS and Android Apps, I just can't get worked up about N support at this point, I'm using in excess of 1200 apps between the 2 OS's, 300+ on Android and N has had an impact on many of them, particularly those that do more than display a webpage and do a little db i/o. I am excited about a few features offered in N and have to work some of the development stuff, but lack of current N support is not a show stopper for me. imho, a vendor stating that N will be supported upon release is not only an acceptable response, it is not at all unusual in nature.
Individually activating lights upon entering a room is a pain, I get that. That's why I use motion sensors and voice response systems personally, it's been a couple years since I've actually used individual switches, virtual or physical. Certainly adding your lights to a scene should be supported, sending in logs would help with that.
Yes, I have used, installed and maintained everything from high end commercial automation systems to many of the other market offerings in the US not to mention X10 going back decades. For what I consider "essential" home automation functionality, controlling of lights, 120vAC devices, timing, triggering, monitoring not to mention security, I get as much functionality out of my A+ as folks with $10,000 custom built systems. Not only that but I found most folks are not leveraging what they have available in the first place. Just as an example, I define lighting scenes by time of day, activity and person using the A+ yet I'll have folks who have dropped lots of money to turn on a bunch of lights with a single click on a phone and that's it. I've not gone the route of temperature changing bulbs, rather went with dimmable bulbs initially and have added in HUE color changing bulbs to accent. So my experience has been very positive in this area. Beyond Cree and Hue, I've used a bunch of Wink bulbs/hub etc and have been rather disappointed in the hardware, reliability and functionality of that product line. So much so that I've removed all of it.
I don't follow your point on defining "over and over" again with individual bulbs as a Rule wouldn't help you with turning them on/off wrt to manually controlling a "scene". If it were even driven, I get it, but wanting to manually control a group of bulbs for on/off or temp change, yep that's a scene thing.
Did notice that you were on the forum asking a couple questions back in Feb 2015, not sure what devices were giving you trouble back then and still today beyond the lights. I haven't gone the OSRAM light route for lots of reasons, went with the HUE option and have been pretty happy with that. Have multiple Schlage locks working without issue for more than a year. The NEST, well I didn't go that route, went with a Centralite for the price point and everything I've read has said, leave the NEST as a stand alone if you want to leverage what the NEST has to offer. Yes you can do some manual control stuff but if you want to leverage the "learning", leave it stand alone for the most part.
End of Life is end of life, no longer supported, period. But that's a techno-symantical thing, to answer your question, Yes, I think A+ will be supported in the near term with firmware updates. It was supported when the Almond 2015 came out and I expect it will continue to be supported as the DIYers will push from the grass roots side to drive the primary feature sets that will be rolled forward. Not until there is a major change in the underlying software methodology or a significant chipset limitation, do I see that changing. Almond 4/5/6, different story.
The newer Vera+ works alright but for sure has it's issues. Given the few bits of HA hardware you've shared, I doubt you'd run into many PITA situations. A couple locks, lights and a thermostat are not approaching any levels of complexity for implementation, they are either supported or not. In fact, not sure what you would do with HA just using those devices beyond lighting scene or three and that could easily be handled with the native app. If you are looking to grow your HA setup, then I would dig more deeply into compatible devices. The WiKi link I shared provides more info than the general website link you posted.
Again, no way did I read your initial post as a call for assistance but rather as an assessment and indictment of the product. What you term as a "glaring" deficiency based on such a limited HA implementation I see far differently given the diversity of products I've installed and have working from a number of different manufacturers. I have several residences using the A+ for far more than the scenario you've describe and have been well pleased with the recent updates. If I had a "goal" for this online forum, it would be to help others achieve a similar level of satisfaction. In you case specifically I would work to;
1) get your locks supported completely
2) get your lights supported in scenes
The whole NEST thing I'm going to step back from because I'm not yet convinced that folding it into the A+ management side of things is the way to go.
-
everything I've read has said, leave the NEST as a stand alone if you want to leverage what the NEST has to offer. Yes you can do some manual control stuff but if you want to leverage the "learning", leave it stand alone for the most part.
I agree with this. I have an iris thermostat and when Target had a price mistake on Nest, I bought them at $39, mainly because my wife insisted that they look "cool". Anyway google decided that if you want to use with a third party HA, then you lose the key appeal of Nest, it's learning technology. I ended up selling it.
I have rooms full of bulbs that all have to be individually controlled from the app (or in my case, the web interface). If your idea of HA is to walk into a room and then launch an app, navigate to the right page and then flip a half dozen switches individually before the lights come on, then we have very different expectations.
Well.. No one in their right minds would expect this to be called "Automation". As @Securecomp said, sending logs would help. My experience with Securifi is that they would like to help and usually do help as much as they can.
But this does highlight something that I have said multiple times, updates have to be synced together. Securifi has a team that adds to the mobile first, then web and then scenes, so you never really know what exactly "supported" means. This, in my opinion, is a stupid decision and I see no reason to change my opinion.
You realize that even accessing the web app requires you to know the router's local IP address and enter it into your browser right? I set up enterprise class networks, but the average user has no idea how to do that without step by step instruction. If that is self explanatory for a customer facing interface then I guess we differ on the meaning of the term.
Again, I don't know if you're trying to be intentionally confrontational. We are not measuring ummm "credentials" here, so need to discuss if our "credibility".
If your "average user" has a straight forward setup, then typing "http://almondplus" is not exactly rocket science.
When you say perfectly well, can you see whether it is locked or not from Android? Can you add and remove codes from Android? Will it remove it without breaking the connection and forcing a reset? Those were the biggest problems before and unlocking my door from the screen on my router was not very useful.
Again, I don't have the model numbers. It's not unreasonable to expect that especially when you are comfortable typing such long posts. Anyway, I don't have Android, but I can do all that from my Schlage 469 lock.
-
I have to chime in here on this one.... I received my A+ what seems likes a lifetime ago, with the expectation of turning my home into a "smart home". The frustrations for the better part of 2015 mounted for me personally, as well as for my wife who is not tech savvy. The issues experienced with the A+ caused a lot of problems between us as I tried and tried to convince her that it WILL work.
First, the lack of ability to use a secondary remote to turn on and off lights was a HUGE factor. She, and admittedly me as well did not like the inability to use a simple mechanical switch to turn on or off a light.
Second, the issues experienced with Linear products, primarily the FS20Z-1 module. I have this module located in my garage, not more than 20 feet from where my A+ is located. However, it constantly lost connection requiring me to delete and re-add the module time and time again.
Lastly, the lack of compatibility with the Amazon Echo, which I am aware has been added.
With all this being said, I do not see any way I could justify moving everything off my SmartThings Hub if there still isn't an option to use secondary remotes with the A+. This issue is not a small one and the fact that Securifi did not see it as a top tier issue to resolve confounds me. I was EXTREMELY excited about the A+ coming out and waited, as many others did very patiently. Other issues such as port forwarding for my security camera DVR not working and not really knowing if the router is broadcasting as an ac router as it was advertised almost makes me want to use it simply as a paperweight. Sorry to be so negative, but the touch screen option was to me a way to convince even the novice user to purchase the A+. However, the A+ is definitely not for the average home owner. Just sayin.... ???
-
I too am surprised by the lack of secondary controller support (or actually more surprised that everyone isn't clamoring for this). That's why the first thing I did was add support for my X11 remote controls, but I wouldn't expect anyone else to want to do that unless they too had a bunch already on hand. If I didn't have them, I certainly wouldn't be using the A+.
-
I have to chime in here on this one.... I received my A+ what seems likes a lifetime ago, with the expectation of turning my home into a "smart home". The frustrations for the better part of 2015 mounted for me personally, as well as for my wife who is not tech savvy. The issues experienced with the A+ caused a lot of problems between us as I tried and tried to convince her that it WILL work.
That has been the biggest NEG in my opinion. My friends and family that went this route wanted it to work like a toaster aka appliance. Nothing too fancy but rock solid. As of R83, with the implementations I've worked, we're good.
First, the lack of ability to use a secondary remote to turn on and off lights was a HUGE factor. She, and admittedly me as well did not like the inability to use a simple mechanical switch to turn on or off a light.
My mechanical switches work fine. Not sure what setup you have that doesn't?
My secondary remote is an old smartphone.
Second, the issues experienced with Linear products, primarily the FS20Z-1 module. I have this module located in my garage, not more than 20 feet from where my A+ is located. However, it constantly lost connection requiring me to delete and re-add the module time and time again.
Sounds like an RF issue more than anything. I've had that issue with one ZWave device, replaced it with a Zigbee and it's been problem free since then.
Lastly, the lack of compatibility with the Amazon Echo, which I am aware has been added.
I think they got the Echo stuff working fast enough. Amazon never saw the Echo coming, not in the way it took off. They can't even make them fast enough. If everyone had anticipated how popular this was, things might have been different. Echo integration is here to stay w/ Securifi Almond products imho and don't be surprised if there are even better features of that nature in the not too distant future.
With all this being said, I do not see any way I could justify moving everything off my SmartThings Hub if there still isn't an option to use secondary remotes with the A+. This issue is not a small one and the fact that Securifi did not see it as a top tier issue to resolve confounds me. I was EXTREMELY excited about the A+ coming out and waited, as many others did very patiently. Other issues such as port forwarding for my security camera DVR not working and not really knowing if the router is broadcasting as an ac router as it was advertised almost makes me want to use it simply as a paperweight. Sorry to be so negative, but the touch screen option was to me a way to convince even the novice user to purchase the A+. However, the A+ is definitely not for the average home owner. Just sayin.... ???
I hear you, though I'm not in the same boat as you with the Smart Things hub, my sensors and devices were selected after watching the forums for a bit and sticking to the compatibility list and I am well pleased with the results. I only look to enhance what I have and add a few more things. I'm not looking to get emails or text messages when temp or humidity changes happen in my house. I'm more of a set it and forget it type. I want it to work so well I forget it's there and alert me when there is an Alarm condition and I am basically there with that kind of setup.
I haven't used a light switch in more than a year, with the very rare exception. Everything is motion driven, scene driven, schedule driven or voice response driven. My security system does exactly what it is supposed to and is far more robust, customized and intricate than anything I could have purchased elsewhere. Only thing I really want there is a 3G dongle as backup and I can get that with a $20 RaspPi integrated into the system or VM machine on some other system I'm willing to leave running.
I'm actually surprised at much of the negativity here as I've been able to solve most of my issues to have the Almond+ working exactly like I want, a worry free appliance.
-
I too am surprised by the lack of secondary controller support (or actually more surprised that everyone isn't clamoring for this). That's why the first thing I did was add support for my X11 remote controls, but I wouldn't expect anyone else to want to do that unless they too had a bunch already on hand. If I didn't have them, I certainly wouldn't be using the A+.
Secondary controller support should have been there as promised. Not everything played out the way we had hoped. But again, it was a Kickstarter Project and there are risks, period. Given my Kickstarter experiences, I'm not disappointed. Certainly wasn't overjoyed but am now content for the most part.
Have you checked the Almond 3 specs??? Some good news there.
-
That has been the biggest NEG in my opinion. My friends and family that went this route wanted it to work like a toaster aka appliance. Nothing too fancy but rock solid. As of R83, with the implementations I've worked, we're good.
My mechanical switches work fine. Not sure what setup you have that doesn't?
My secondary remote is an old smartphone.
When I say "secondary Remote", I am referring to a mechanical button on a handheld device, such as the GE 45600. I use a couple of them with my SmartThings hub and it works great. I don't always have my phone on me and having to open up the app, wait for it to respond, scroll to the device, yada yada... is quite cumbersome. Also, my "connected" light bulbs don't have a mechanical wall switch to connect to as the controls are in the light bulb itself. I got real tired of my wife turning off the lamp switch, preventing me from controlling the bulb remotely. She refuses to find her phone just to turn off a lamp. I have them controlled by the Lutron LZL-4B-WH-L01 mounted on the wall near the lamp itself.
Until support for these devices is added, there is no way I could switch back. It would completely throw off my family not having them to turn on and off the lights.
-
When I say "secondary Remote", I am referring to a mechanical button on a handheld device, such as the GE 45600. I use a couple of them with my SmartThings hub and it works great. I don't always have my phone on me and having to open up the app, wait for it to respond, scroll to the device, yada yada... is quite cumbersome. Also, my "connected" light bulbs don't have a mechanical wall switch to connect to as the controls are in the light bulb itself. I got real tired of my wife turning off the lamp switch, preventing me from controlling the bulb remotely. She refuses to find her phone just to turn off a lamp. I have them controlled by the Lutron LZL-4B-WH-L01 mounted on the wall near the lamp itself.
Until support for these devices is added, there is no way I could switch back. It would completely throw off my family not having them to turn on and off the lights.
I understand you want a handy remote. The Securifi Key Fob is a programmable remote that can be used to turn lights on and off.
The Cree bulbs I use are managed by both the app and the light switch and work fine. I don't have any lights in any house that are not wired to a light switch. Just looking at the switch you posted, doesn't it toggle the light but leave the power on? So the light is still live in the net?
An old smartphone that always has the App open and no security code is what I use as a secondary remote. No App load wait, not using my phone, just have it sitting in the living room near the lights and TV. I'm adding a 2nd key fob right now to try and set it up as a remote for lights and some other stuff.
-
Just added 2nd Key Fob and it gives me 3 buttons and Panic Mode to use and I've programmed them to control lights.
-
Just programmed 3 Scenes into the 2nd Key Fob.
Toggle lights in one room, toggle lights in another room, toggle all lights in the house.
I'll probably modify that but it works. Kind of handy.
-
Second, the issues experienced with Linear products, primarily the FS20Z-1 module. I have this module located in my garage, not more than 20 feet from where my A+ is located. However, it constantly lost connection requiring me to delete and re-add the module time and time again.
I thought I would add to that since I have that exact module connected to my garage and I have not had a problem. In fact, we have been away from my house from November to February earlier this year and when I came back, I used my app to open the garage door and it worked flawlessly.
I added a couple of linear switches (WD500z and WT00z) about 4 days back that have been working well so far. The only issue is that they don't support instant status update (by design, so works the same way in SmartThings, Wink and Almond) so the status on the app is not accurate. But they haven't lost connection (yet)
-
I understand you want a handy remote. The Securifi Key Fob is a programmable remote that can be used to turn lights on and off.
The Cree bulbs I use are managed by both the app and the light switch and work fine. I don't have any lights in any house that are not wired to a light switch. Just looking at the switch you posted, doesn't it toggle the light but leave the power on? So the light is still live in the net?
An old smartphone that always has the App open and no security code is what I use as a secondary remote. No App load wait, not using my phone, just have it sitting in the living room near the lights and TV. I'm adding a 2nd key fob right now to try and set it up as a remote for lights and some other stuff.
I gotcha and understand. I am glad this work for you and I too bought the key fob. However, it just isn't the same thing as having a physical switch, which looks like a switch and not a tiny key fob. Honestly, it isn't very attractive to have key fobs laying around the house. The GE remote at least looks like a remote one would have for a TV so it doesn't stand out. I can program 18 devices with the GE remote, which is very handy when I get in to bed, only to realize I left the garage light on. Very easy to reach over and press a button.
With regards to your statement about "doesn't it toggle the light but leave the power on? So the light is still live in the net? Let's map this one out... Lamp with Cree bulb, plugged into an outlet. Said outlet is controlled by a mechanical switch. When said switch is turned off, power is longer available for said outlet, which also means there is no power to said lamp with Cree bulb. No power to lamp with Cree bulb means the Cree bulb will no longer be available on the network due to no power. What type of switch is made where when it is turned off, there is still power supplied. I want to stay away from those switches because they aren't doing their job. Check it... I appreciate your responses, but this is exactly what I am referring to with the A+. It is all about "jury rigging". This may be ok with single guys, but I am here to tell you that most women (wives) will not be cool with non-aesthetically pleasing options for lighting control. Just saying... And little kids... I cannot recall how many things have been misplaced in my house because a 4 year old didn't put a tiny key fob back where he/she used it.
-
I thought I would add to that since I have that exact module connected to my garage and I have not had a problem. In fact, we have been away from my house from November to February earlier this year and when I came back, I used my app to open the garage door and it worked flawlessly.
I added a couple of linear switches (WD500z and WT00z) about 4 days back that have been working well so far. The only issue is that they don't support instant status update (by design, so works the same way in SmartThings, Wink and Almond) so the status on the app is not accurate. But they haven't lost connection (yet)
You actually assisted me with this issue a while back before I finally gave up and switched to SmartThings. You were very patient and helpful however, I was never able to keep this switch stable on my A+ home auto network. The switch is located in the garage, which is detached from the house. Therefore there are 2 exterior walls between the switch and the A+, as well as about 20 feet of backyard. I have a Leviton switch in the shed, which is further away and has never given me issues. Since switching to SmartThings, every module in my network has worked perfectly.
-
Since switching to SmartThings, every module in my network has worked perfectly.
I remember now.. If it's working well on ST, I assume it is not a hardware problem either. I don't have any other suggestions.
It most women (wives) will not be cool with non-aesthetically pleasing options for lighting control. Just saying... And little kids... I cannot recall how many things have been misplaced in my house because a 4 year old didn't put a tiny key fob back where he/she used it.
:-) It just happened to me with those Linear switches. Apparently those switches were a little too white and all our switches were very light ivory. I went to homedepot and lowes and could not find a switch that is the exact shade of white as those linear bulbs. FML
When said switch is turned off, power is longer available for said outlet, which also means there is no power to said lamp with Cree bulb. No power to lamp with Cree bulb means the Cree bulb will no longer be available on the network due to no power.
This is the part I have never ever understood with connected bulbs. If you want to use them with a mechanical switch, then you turn off the switch, the bulb loses all power. In your case, you have bought a cree bulb and another zigbee device. Wouldn't you have been better off just replacing the wall switch with a z-wave wall switch? That way it is just one device that you replace. You would still be able to use an app or a mechanical switch. Granted it doesn't solve your problem of secondary controller.
Honestly though, can someone give me valid examples of using connected bulbs (non color changing) where a z-wave switch wouldn't work just as well or better ? Apparently my imagination is limited. And that way I can use the lone GE Link bulb I have
What type of switch is made where when it is turned off, there is still power supplied. I want to stay away from those switches because they aren't doing their job.
Pretty much all z-wave switches. That is why they require a neutral so that they can keep the radio on while turning off the load. Edit: Never mind, I misunderstood your question
-
I gotcha and understand. I am glad this work for you and I too bought the key fob. However, it just isn't the same thing as having a physical switch, which looks like a switch and not a tiny key fob. Honestly, it isn't very attractive to have key fobs laying around the house. The GE remote at least looks like a remote one would have for a TV so it doesn't stand out. I can program 18 devices with the GE remote, which is very handy when I get in to bed, only to realize I left the garage light on. Very easy to reach over and press a button.
Ah, you want support for a currently unsupported device, at least I didn't see any GE Remote on the supported device list. Nothing wrong with that, plenty of devices I would like to have supported as well and a more capable remote is one of them. But that's different than trying to solve a problem with known supported devices which is what I took the problem to be.
Indeed there are no "remote controls" on the supported list other than the NYCE 'lifestyle' control which is a key fob as well, and the Securifi key fob. So your issue isn't 'jury rigging', it is rather a desire to have an expanded list of supported devices, specifically a different, more capable, remote control device. You want to solve a problem that can't be solved using the list of currently supported devices. So you have created a no win scenario, pile on compounding issues such as aesthetics, children and work arounds which gives the impression that the Almond+ falls far short of your desires. Understanding a little bit better about your real world needs, I am empathetic but not sympathetic in this case, the device isn't supported, period, hopefully it will be in the future.
With regards to your statement about "doesn't it toggle the light but leave the power on? So the light is still live in the net? Let's map this one out... Lamp with Cree bulb, plugged into an outlet. Said outlet is controlled by a mechanical switch. When said switch is turned off, power is longer available for said outlet, which also means there is no power to said lamp with Cree bulb. No power to lamp with Cree bulb means the Cree bulb will no longer be available on the network due to no power. What type of switch is made where when it is turned off, there is still power supplied.
A programmable remote switch that would talk to the bulb not the outlet. I've not looked for one as I have no need but I would have expected one to be out there for someone's bulb.
But again, this goes to design and working with currently supported devices. The supported controllable outlets that I use are connected to devices that when power is applied, come to an active and useful state, for example, an in window air conditioner. When power is applied to the outlet, the AC unit is powered on and cooling. Not a two step action but a one step action.
Your design had controllable light bulbs connected to a controllable outlet. That was your choice and created it's own problems. Specifically because it is not convenient to use an App (the advertised method of supplementing A+ remote control) you want to use a physical remote control and failing that, the wall switch that then interferes with the App control. This just doubles back to wanting support for a GE style remote. A reasonable and useful request. What seems somewhat unreasonable is the design, knowing a list of compatible sensors and then holding Securifi to account for your implementation. Not an indictment, an observation. And again, support for more capable remote is up there on my priority list as well.
I want to stay away from those switches because they aren't doing their job. Check it... I appreciate your responses, but this is exactly what I am referring to with the A+. It is all about "jury rigging". This may be ok with single guys, but I am here to tell you that most women (wives) will not be cool with non-aesthetically pleasing options for lighting control. Just saying... And little kids... I cannot recall how many things have been misplaced in my house because a 4 year old didn't put a tiny key fob back where he/she used it.
I totally get the spouse thing, I heard a scream as I was about to drill into the side of the front door to install a flush mount sensor. It would have been easier to have Congress decrease medicare payments than the trial I experienced during that exercise. ;D
And no, key fobs are not the answer but they were an answer using what's supported at the moment. I've actually installed those bluetooth tracking devices on about a dozen key fobs in the extended family, specifically to be able to track them down for the exact same reason. Well not 4 year olds anymore, but 9 year olds playing, 15 year olds wanting to learn how to drive a car and 50+ year olds that can't remember where they put their keys. So I absolutely take your point.
Generally what I am finding in folks that express any level of disappointment with Securifi's products is, if a device is listed as compatible, they expect it to be functioning with all features working reliably and two, add more device support.
I do not work for Securifi but I do make an effort to communicate thoughtfully with them and provide feedback from my handful of implementations. I will add a more capable remote control to my todo list and see what can be done. Currently Securifi is up against significant levels of effort with the upcoming release of the Almond 3 and supporting firmware upgrades for the A+, A2015, new Securifi sensors and adding to the supported device list. So no promises, but I think now that there supported device list has grown, the firmware is maturing, a capable remote would bring a nice feature set to the Securifi supported device list.
-
This is the part I have never ever understood with connected bulbs. If you want to use them with a mechanical switch, then you turn off the switch, the bulb loses all power. In your case, you have bought a cree bulb and another zigbee device. Wouldn't you have been better off just replacing the wall switch with a z-wave wall switch? That way it is just one device that you replace. You would still be able to use an app or a mechanical switch. Granted it doesn't solve your problem of secondary controller.
The particular lamps I use the connected bulbs (Cree, GE Link, etc..) are actually lamps, which are not controlled by a mechanical wall switch. The mechanical switch in this case is the actual finger turn switch on the actual lamps. I was using the whole wall mechanical switch as a general example. If the lamps I have the connected bulbs in were able to be controlled by an existing wall switch, I most definitely would have replaced the wall switch with a z-wave device. The types of bulbs are useful when a lamp isn't able to be controlled by a wall switch, which control the power to an outlet. :-)
-
Ah, you want support for a currently unsupported device, at least I didn't see any GE Remote on the supported device list. Nothing wrong with that, plenty of devices I would like to have supported as well and a more capable remote is one of them. But that's different than trying to solve a problem with known supported devices which is what I took the problem to be.
Indeed there are no "remote controls" on the supported list other than the NYCE 'lifestyle' control which is a key fob as well, and the Securifi key fob. So your issue isn't 'jury rigging', it is rather a desire to have an expanded list of supported devices, specifically a different, more capable, remote control device. You want to solve a problem that can't be solved using the list of currently supported devices. So you have created a no win scenario, pile on compounding issues such as aesthetics, children and work arounds which gives the impression that the Almond+ falls far short of your desires. Understanding a little bit better about your real world needs, I am empathetic but not sympathetic in this case, the device isn't supported, period, hopefully it will be in the future.
A programmable remote switch that would talk to the bulb not the outlet. I've not looked for one as I have no need but I would have expected one to be out there for someone's bulb.
And this is why I went to the SmartThings hub. Even the Wink hub supports secondary controllers. I actually seems like a simple thing and being ST and WINK have supported them for some time now, I would have thought the Securifi folks would have realized this would be a big deal to many people looking to truly automate their homes.
I totally get the spouse thing, I heard a scream as I was about to drill into the side of the front door to install a flush mount sensor. It would have been easier to have Congress decrease medicare payments than the trial I experienced during that exercise. ;D
And no, key fobs are not the answer but they were an answer using what's supported at the moment. I've actually installed those bluetooth tracking devices on about a dozen key fobs in the extended family, specifically to be able to track them down for the exact same reason. Well not 4 year olds anymore, but 9 year olds playing, 15 year olds wanting to learn how to drive a car and 50+ year olds that can't remember where they put their keys. So I absolutely take your point.
TOO funny, I love it! Actually my wife has gotten a lot better with expanding her mind to new things. She was born and raised in Mexico and when we first met, she was newly citizenized. I tease her still today with our friends that she didn't even want power windows in her car because it was just one more thing that will break :-O Not "can" break, "will" break! lol Anyway, she treats me like "Tim the Toolman" less and less as things end up working pretty good. She LOVES the echo being able to turn off a light using her voice.
Generally what I am finding in folks that express any level of disappointment with Securifi's products is, if a device is listed as compatible, they expect it to be functioning with all features working reliably and two, add more device support.
I do not work for Securifi but I do make an effort to communicate thoughtfully with them and provide feedback from my handful of implementations. I will add a more capable remote control to my todo list and see what can be done. Currently Securifi is up against significant levels of effort with the upcoming release of the Almond 3 and supporting firmware upgrades for the A+, A2015, new Securifi sensors and adding to the supported device list. So no promises, but I think now that there supported device list has grown, the firmware is maturing, a capable remote would bring a nice feature set to the Securifi supported device list.
I sincerely appreciate this forum and folks like you. This is probably the best thing about the Almond+. This is probably the best forum around, better than my car's forum, any home DIY forum, especially electrical, and even better then the SmartThings forum. Thank you again.
-
Honestly though, can someone give me valid examples of using connected bulbs (non color changing) where a z-wave switch wouldn't work just as well or better ? Apparently my imagination is limited.
Multiple lamps/lights on a single circuit sharing a wall switch.
I want to control (and do) each lamp individually leaving the legacy wall switch in place.
I've created many lighting "scenes" that involve one to many lights, some of which are on the same circuit, but many are not.
Not to mention individually controlling DIM levels.
Sample modes:
lights on
lights off
gaming mode (lights dimmed, lights in front near game console off, lights behind extremely low)
movie mode (similar to game mode but mostly all lights dimmed to low level)
evening mode (some lights dimmed, others off)
morning mode (gradually increasing dim level of some bulbs, turning on various lights at until all are on and at full bright)
Many more scenarios, these are just some
Then I mix the Hues in to add color to morning, evening, night, late night, game, movie, etc and all of this is unique by room.
-
I admit that part of the purpose of my post was to vent and see the reactions of other users to it. The resultant discussion is about how many workarounds are acceptable. If you are okay with a lot of workarounds and effort, then Almond is passable. The problem is that almost every other system is better than this one. If you don't already own an Almond and want to make the best out of it, people need to understand what they are getting themselves into. As a Kickstarter backer (I don't know why that doesn't show up in my profile) I realize I was taking a risk. That risk left me with a router worth what I paid but no more. But for people who are just now buying this thing now, 3 years later, for $200 it is just not worth it.
I don't understand what public image Securifi is trying to portray exactly, but they appear to have made a bare minimum passable automation system so they can add that to their specification sheet. It would be a reasonable router for $150 if you don't know how to setup a normal router, but the home automation does not justify the added $50 since it is such an incomplete feature.
-
I admit that part of the purpose of my post was to vent and see the reactions of other users to it.
aka trolling as in literally, almost precisely the definition of trolling, though I'm going to choose to take your intent as genuine desire to learn rather than sow discourse
The resultant discussion is about how many workarounds are acceptable.
Some was, much had to do with making thoughtful choices going in and understanding the risks associated with Kickstarter projects. As an example, there are several so called 'home automation systems' available on the market that work with a fixed number of sensors, often from the same manufacturer of the 'hub'. You simply have to visit Home Depot, Lowes or the like to see many examples of this. Securifi's product goes beyond this offering and offers WiFi routing along with a touchscreen interface. FWIW, any of these other hubs involve costs way beyond $50 to implement, relating to your estimate of the value of the HA side of A+.
If you are okay with a lot of workarounds and effort, then Almond is passable.
The only part of my setup that I consider a workaround is setting a rule to turn devices off at a given time and that rule is separate from the rule that turns them on at a given time. Other than that I don't consider what I have a workaround, but then again, I did not intentionally purchase items on the "not supported" list or worry about legacy integration of systems dating back to the 1980's as some have.
The problem is that almost every other system is better than this one.
By that I presume you mean products like Smart Things or Vera or running Homeseer on a Pi or something, not Wink/Dlink/Iris and other dedicated, narrowly focused HA systems, none of which provide WiFi router or touchscreen management systems. So you are selecting a dedicated HA system that has been around longer, has a grass roots community that is well established and does not offer significant features offered by the Securifi products. Almost apples and oranges but I understand, if you want to have a single device to do it all, you want it to literally 'do it all' and until Securifi greatly expands the list of supported devices, that won't happen. And even if they do, until the firmware/software/apps are as comprehensive and flexible as the dedicated HA systems, you won't be happy. But then again, purchasing a product based on wishes vs the specs of the supported sensor/device list, well it has risks.
If you don't already own an Almond and want to make the best out of it, people need to understand what they are getting themselves into. As a Kickstarter backer (I don't know why that doesn't show up in my profile)
Just ask Ashok, they will update your profile
I realize I was taking a risk. That risk left me with a router worth what I paid but no more. But for people who are just now buying this thing now, 3 years later, for $200 it is just not worth it.
I happen to disagree, just my opinion. And I happen to have a couple dozen devices/sensors working just fine and a reasonably robust HA system that still allows enough DIY tinkering to keep me happy.
I don't understand what public image Securifi is trying to portray exactly, but they appear to have made a bare minimum passable automation system so they can add that to their specification sheet. It would be a reasonable router for $150 if you don't know how to setup a normal router, but the home automation does not justify the added $50 since it is such an incomplete feature.
Seems a little harsh given the number of supported devices, the integration with Amazon Echo, the A3 that was recently announced, the growing list of sensors, the continued improvements to the legacy firmware.
I believe it comes down to an honest assessment of your home automation requirements and a clear understanding of the list of supported devices.
There is a reason "HA" systems sold at the big box stores only work with a specific list of products and have a limited interfaces, it is to create a sense of reliability and ease of use. Other dedicated HA systems, or rather hubs/controllers, that support a greater diversity of products absolutely have their inherent weaknesses, features and as much as they can be easy to use, you can jump right down the rabbit hole when trying to accomplish a simple goal.
-
aka trolling as in literally, almost precisely the definition of trolling, though I'm going to choose to take your intent as genuine desire to learn rather than sow discourse
Trolling: "make a deliberately offensive or provocative online posting with the aim of upsetting someone or eliciting an angry response from them." I trust you don't think that suggesting that Almond+ is not a good value is offensive or provocative. If people are angry at the suggestion then they might be a little too attached to their router.
Securifi's product goes beyond this offering and offers WiFi routing along with a touchscreen interface. FWIW, any of these other hubs involve costs way beyond $50 to implement, relating to your estimate of the value of the HA side of A+.
Again, I realize there is value in a touch screen router and my critique is pointedly about the Home Automation feature which is an entirely separate function from wifi. It makes no difference to me if those two functions are in the same box or two different ones, but I also recognize that is a matter of opinion. If they weren't worth evaluating separately there wouldn't be separate subforums.
The only part of my setup that I consider a workaround is setting a rule to turn devices off at a given time and that rule is separate from the rule that turns them on at a given time. Other than that I don't consider what I have a workaround, but then again, I did not intentionally purchase items on the "not supported" list or worry about legacy integration of systems dating back to the 1980's as some have.
I purposefully purchased things that were on the list and they didn't work. One was even taken off the list. I've explained this.
By that I presume you mean products like Smart Things or Vera or running Homeseer on a Pi or something, not Wink/Dlink/Iris and other dedicated, narrowly focused HA systems, none of which provide WiFi router or touchscreen management systems. So you are selecting a dedicated HA system that has been around longer, has a grass roots community that is well established and does not offer significant features offered by the Securifi products. Almost apples and oranges but I understand, if you want to have a single device to do it all, you want it to literally 'do it all' and until Securifi greatly expands the list of supported devices, that won't happen. And even if they do, until the firmware/software/apps are as comprehensive and flexible as the dedicated HA systems, you won't be happy. But then again, purchasing a product based on wishes vs the specs of the supported sensor/device list, well it has risks.
You are just being deliberately combative here. AGAIN, every smart device I purchased was on the supported list when I bought it. Smartthings launched just 4 months before Almond+ and was leaps and bounds ahead of where Almond+ is now before the Samsung purchase. Vera has a grass roots community because they have a platform that allows it, Securifi does not allow any third party or open source anything, so if that's a disadvantage it is purposeful. Homeseer is crazy expensive and in a different category. Wink has more supported devices than Almond+. If you want to put Almond+ in the category of Isis so you can say it is better, fine, but that is not a flattering argument.
Seems a little harsh given the number of supported devices, the integration with Amazon Echo, the A3 that was recently announced, the growing list of sensors, the continued improvements to the legacy firmware.
I realize the value of the Almond+ package is a matter of opinion and that your opinion is that Almond+ is the industry leader. The A3 is actually a step backward on the HA front with the lack of built-in Z-Wave support. Smartthings, Vera and Wink all beat Almond+ to having Amazon Echo support. It is surprising Securifi launched Echo support (it must be easy) since they still don't support Google Now or IFTTT like the others have for years. The device list is growing, sure, but it is still really small compared to smartthings and vera and is outpaced even by wink.
I believe it comes down to an honest assessment of your home automation requirements and a clear understanding of the list of supported devices.
Is anyone misunderstanding the supported devices? Let's rehash that again...
There is a reason "HA" systems sold at the big box stores only work with a specific list of products and have a limited interfaces, it is to create a sense of reliability and ease of use. Other dedicated HA systems, or rather hubs/controllers, that support a greater diversity of products absolutely have their inherent weaknesses, features and as much as they can be easy to use, you can jump right down the rabbit hole when trying to accomplish a simple goal.
So Almond+ has the small list of supported products of a big fox store hub but without the reliability and ease of use?
SecureComp, you defend Almond+ like it is your child. I see why you have to put in your signature that you don't work for securifi because you are more defensive than any of the securifi employees. I don't feel like this incredible devotion actually furthers the conversation. I wanted to know if other users feel the same frustration I do when trying to make use of this box and the answer is a resounding yes even if your voice is not included with theirs.