Securifi Community Forum
Sensors and Home Automation => Home automation => Topic started by: shay on October 16, 2013, 11:08:40 am
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What alarm systems if any are you planning on integrating with?
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To be honest, we haven't looked that closely at this yet, but please feel free to add suggestions and we'll see what we can do. We know the ELK-M1 is a popular solution, but we'd be open to try to add support to any and all solutions that could be connected to the Almond+.
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The DSC Powerseries are really popular with mi casa verde users.
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Presumably something like this would be needed? http://www.dsc.com/index.php?n=products&o=view&id=139
I'm sorry, but personally I don't have a lot of experience with these things. However, it seems like the only way we could interface with an alarm system would be via IP.
What kind of support are you looking for on the Almond+ side?
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Very similar to what I posted here:
http://forum.securifi.com/index.php/topic,165.0.html
Using the alarms sensors as inputs to trigger a scene is what I would like to be able to do.
Like having a motion sensor (that doesn't have the 7-9 second lag like the battery operated zwave ones do) to turn on a light when you enter a room or keep it on as long as motion is seen every 15 mins or so.
Not turn on the AC in summer if doors or windows are open (assuming they all have sensors in the alarm system of course) or alert you via text or email that the temp is high enough to turn on, but door or window is open.
That is what I'm looking for. Others can chime in with what they would like to see.
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I found this link on a Swedish Z-Wave forum.
http://code.mios.com/account (http://code.mios.com/account)
It lists how to connect a few alarms and other devices to the Vera system, I found my Alarm Visonic Powermax, there is a link to reading the Serial communication from the Alarm, and I'm planning on ordering the RS-232 adapter for it, to see if I can get it to work with the Almond+.
This would mean I could use the existing sensors on it with the Almond+.
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Thanks for the link, very useful stuff and I'll make sure to pass it on to our software team.
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Integration with Envisalink 3 http://www.eyezon.com/?page_id=176 or ad2usb http://www.nutech.com/online-store/35.html would also be nice
Thanks!
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Are those the most popular solutions out there?
We'd most likely try to add support for solutions that are widely used first and go from there.
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The Elk and HAI are probably the most popular DIY combined Home Automation / Security systems but they are rather expensive. They also have a lot of overlap with the planned HA functionality of the Almond+ so some people may not see the need for both.
The DSC and Ademco Vista are two of the most popular and capable stand alone security systems. Probably one of the reasons Eyezon chose them for the panels they support with the EnvisaLink 3. Also at lease for the DSC, the protocol EnvisaLink uses is a clone of the one DSC uses for their own communications module so one driver can take care of both communication methods.
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Personally here utilize two Leviton/HAI OPII panels in addition to my home automation software. I chose the HAI panels mostly because of their small footprint. That said the Elk panel is an excellent panel with the same type of functionality.
The above noted and related to the Leviton HAI OPII panel; an Almond + could also be utilized as a console to the Leviton Panel that I have configured already with UPB, X10 and Z-Wave; plus the Omnistat(s) and Russound zoned amplifiers + HAI CCTV stuff.
My Leviton combo panel can function without any interaction from the automation software. That said I utilize the interaction for some higher level functions. IE: say integration into the CCTV
So in a recap we see a few different methodologies of providing Alarm system integration.
1 - As Automate suggested above; integrating a pure security alarm function connection (DSC) - simplest.
2 - Integration of a combo security / automation panel (in the DIY world there are two panels today that have been around for over 10 years - Leviton HAI and ElK). While the technology utilized on these boards is sort of legacy; they were made to last forever; literally.
The above stuff though always considering "life and saftey" first integration into the Alarm panel.
A program / software glitch/hiccup can have adverse unwanted effects; IE: "life and saftey" issues if not done right.
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I got the RS232 interface for my Visonic Powermax Pro yesterday.
It is installed now in the Alarm, but since I do not have any computer with a serial port, I need to get a USB adaptor, or even better some kind of wireless device.
I will look for something, I suppose that for the Almond+ a ZigBee device would be the best option, does anyone have a suggestion for something that would transfer the RS232 signal over ZigBee?
For now until I get the Almond+ i'm going to look for either Bluetooth or in worst case some kind of USB device.
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http://www.fasttech.com/products/0/10003621/1265502-drf2617a-rs232-to-zigbee-wireless-module ? Not cheap, but as it's based on the TI chipset, it should be quite hackable since they have a free SDK.
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I think I would go with an Ethernet to Serial adapter such as this one http://www.hw-group.com/products/portbox/PortBox2_en.html or the cheaper ones on ebay. Then just make a socket connection to the adapter from the Almond +
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Hmm, that does look handy, but from what I can see they only make drivers for Windows?
We can't be sure the Almond+ will even be able to communicate with it.
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Here I utilize Quatech serial servers:
http://www.quatech.com/catalog/serial_device_servers.php (http://www.quatech.com/catalog/serial_device_servers.php)
They make a number of products.
I also utilize Digi Edgeports and Digi USB anywhere devices.
http://www.digi.com/products/usb/edgeport (http://www.digi.com/products/usb/edgeport)
and Lantronix
http://www.lantronix.com/ (http://www.lantronix.com/)
Today the main automation server has some 20 plus serial connections (direct and indirect) and some 5-10 USB connections.
It is talking to X10, Insteon, Z-Wave and UPB devices. The alarm is autonomous to the automation server and currently is connected via a serial link.
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@eldaria The drivers are only to make a virtual com port. Any OS and program that can make a TCP socket connection can use Ethernet to serial converters. The ones Pete posted work the same basic way.
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Another concern you have to address relates to having a console to the panel (whatever you utilize) that will work should their be no network (wired or wireless) or power. An optional POE connection to the Almond + would be nice.
The introduction of using your home network or the cloud as a means for a console for your alarm panel doesn't fix the issues should you have a power failure or network failure in your home.
I keep a wired serial keypad connected that will run via a subpanel just for the consoles which also connects serially (wired) and is on batteries.
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@Automate
I have no experince with network connected serial ports, but it would be handy since you could then connect from any device in the home, Almond+ or a Computer.
It does introduce a security risk though.
I would access it either from Mac or Linux, suppose I will have to order one and test, it is certainly more versatile than only using Zigbee.
@pete
I have a UPS that makes sure my stuff is powered for about 3 hours should the power go out, the alarm has it's own battery backup, and is also connected over GSM. I plan to try and use the Almond+ to have a 3G/4G fallback in case the normal internet connection goes down.
Although the Almond+ probably is going to be in a different place in the house than the rest of the equipment, so will see how I solve the backup power for it, depending on how much current the Almond+ draws, it could be enough with a small battery pack to keep it running for a while should there be a power outage.
POE is an option as I could the utilize the existing UPS for backup power, it would also remove the need to be close to a poweroutlet when placing the Panel.
I'm kind of happy I got the Devloper edition as I will have two units, I would not want to run all Ethernet cables downstairs where I plan to have the panel.
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Here playing some....
I have a UPS that makes sure my stuff is powered for about 3 hours should the power go out, the alarm has it's own battery backup, and is also connected over GSM. I plan to try and use the Almond+ to have a 3G/4G fallback in case the normal internet connection goes down.
The Openframe telco / energy tablet has a GSM SIM socket, Bluetooth, Wireless N and Gb NIC. Intel atom based well ahead of its time. (and DECT and Zigbee). I am currently using POE to power these. It appears to be an oversized mobile platform Intel based chipset.
Also playing a bit with the Ericcson W.25 and the Nexus Hawk (old stuff). The Nexus Hawk has two failover network GSM connections.
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I opened up a customer service request for Linux Ubuntu 12.X drivers for the Quatech serial server a few days back. It appears that the last updated set of drivers was from Ubuntu 8.X. That said I tried doing the make install thing with the older drivers and it didn't work.
I got a response today asking if I would pay for the updates of the drivers for Ubuntu 12.X. I thought i was an odd response.
The other choice is just to do a USB / serial TCP tunneling thing.
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@eldaria, If you are really concerned about security you can go with a model that encrypts the data but I would say this is overkill.
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To add a few options on what could be automated with alarm system integration:
1. Turn down thermostats when the alarm is armed away, turn off any lights that are on.
2. Automatically disarm alarm when door is unlocked via a valid pass code entered on a Z-Wave lock.
My vote would go to the DSC Powerseries and ELK. I have had both in the past and currently have a DSC.
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As some others have said, the Ademco Vista panel is popular. I would like to see an interface using the popular AD2USB adapter which provides an easy interface with the alarm panel. This adapter is available on Amazon http://www.amazon.com/NuTech-Software-Solutions-AD2USB-Adapter/dp/B0042BZ3U0/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top
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Presumably something like this would be needed? http://www.dsc.com/index.php?n=products&o=view&id=139
I'm sorry, but personally I don't have a lot of experience with these things. However, it seems like the only way we could interface with an alarm system would be via IP.
What kind of support are you looking for on the Almond+ side?
Actually this isn't quite correct. What you need is an aftermarket cousin of the TL150. It's called the Envisalink. This is a home automation geek's dream module, as it has compatibility with DSC and Honeywell alarm systems. It also has easy published APIs.
http://www.eyezon.com/?page_id=176
http://forum.eyez-on.com/FORUM/download/file.php?id=49&sid=d270307cf0594274d49f3a6cda69ae3a
http://forum.eyez-on.com/FORUM/download/file.php?id=80&sid=d270307cf0594274d49f3a6cda69ae3a
Alternatively, the only integration ability usually offered by alarm systems is RS232. This can easily be down converted to USB.
http://www.dsc.com/index.php?n=products&o=view&id=22
I'm a security technician who has been installing Micasaverde systems as an adjunct to a security panel. This has multiple advantages, including much superior sensors, ability to interface with a proper monitoring company if desired, and superior security than offered in the HA market. I've sold and installed quite a few DSC - Envisalink - VeraLite - UPS combinations, and it's an absolutely stellar mix. This allows armed states on the alarm to interact with locks, thermostats, lights, and garage door openers. I've extended it to the audio visual world as well.
My point.. at the point of begging... is for another affordable system to choose between where the developers understand that they can have more markets than simply the end user. Integrators and professionals need far more support. We stand to be the absolute best sales force companies like yourselves could ever have. We have the know-how on how to install all the Z-Wave and Zigbee products, can handle support on your behalf, and in many cases would order your products in bulk.
There are alternative HA systems where one can rig all of this together reliably, but none so affordable as the Vera platform. The Almond+ would be even superior to this as well, as it offers a physical interface and the dual band WirelessAC.
Thanks for your time, and good luck with your fine product!
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Hi Pestus,
Right, that makes sense, I've seen that one before (you found the other thread about it as well) and we'll see what we can do.
If there's support for OpenWRT, it should be fairly trivial to add it.
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Lars,
Thank you! Your encouraging words offer me hope!
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I've looked into how connecting the the ELK would work with the M1 XEP ethernet interface. ELK provides a detailed description of the serial protocol that the M1 uses (an older version can be found here: http://www.getacoder.com/data/projects/118354/ELK-M1_RS232_PROTOCOL.pdf ) and you can download the latest after making an account on elkproducts.com . The ethernet interface provides an interface with the same vocabulary over port 2101. There is a perl module to communicate with the XEP available on sourceforge (http://sourceforge.net/projects/elkm1control/) and integrating that into the Almond+ doesn't look like too much of a challenge. I plan on working on it as soon as I get my Almond+ :).
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Hmm I found this one in a search on Google.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Serial-TTL-RS232-to-802-11-b-g-n-Converter-Embedded-WiFi-Module-CE-FCC-e/281205805036 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Serial-TTL-RS232-to-802-11-b-g-n-Converter-Embedded-WiFi-Module-CE-FCC-e/281205805036)
Would be handy to skip the Ethernet Cable when connecting to the Alarm.
What do you guys think?
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It does not have a standard rs-232 port. It uses TTL (5 volt) interface so you would need a TTL to rs-232 converter also.
This one looks interesting. http://www.ebay.com/itm/281201815190?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649
Can use wired Ethernet or wireless WiFi
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Hmm, so I could maybe hooked it directly to the alarm and not spend a bunch of money on a adaptor kit.
I bought this one for my alarm: http://www.homesecuritystore.com/p-818-visonic-rs232-kit-adaptor-and-software-interface-for-powermax.aspx (http://www.homesecuritystore.com/p-818-visonic-rs232-kit-adaptor-and-software-interface-for-powermax.aspx)
But the one you linked looks interesting, Think I will order that one instead.
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It's hard to say. Does the alarm literature say you need that adapter? The adapter you linked has electronic components on it. It is hard to say exactly what they are doing since the board has a proprietary connector. It may be TTL to rs-232 or it may do something else.
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Well it seems some people have tried to hook up directly to the port without the serial adapter.
http://www.raspberrypi.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=25890 (http://www.raspberrypi.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=25890)
I decided I could just as well get the overpriced adapter, so I already have that one installed, but since I have no computers with a serial port, I'm looking around for some nice solution, and the one you linked looks like a good solution. then I could access the Alarm from both the Almond+ and from the computer.
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The literature around this device suggests it's meant as a field technician programming tool. In order to use a laptop or something to program the alarm system on site. It looks like it can be done however, with some rigging;
http://forum.micasaverde.com/index.php?topic=6884.0
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Absolutely, and some people have put a ot of effort into reverse engineering the serial protocol for this Alarm.
On the first page of this thread, 6th reply to this thread, I posted a link to a page that lists some various resources for Vera, and there is a link to the Visonic Alarm and few others, and in there is a link to this Forum.
http://www.domoticaforum.eu/viewtopic.php?f=68&t=6581 (http://www.domoticaforum.eu/viewtopic.php?f=68&t=6581)
My plan is to see if I can use this to crate some kind of interface for the Almond+ to communicate with the alarm.
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This is going to be fun, when the Almond+ is out there.
Lots to do :)
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This is the only post I could find regarding DSC integration. Has there been any support or will there be any support for EVL-3 ?
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Good question!
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I have seen some coding (C) done talking via a documented API for the Leviton HAI Omnipro II panel using the Arduino. (writing a little sketch).
I have seen similiar with OpenWRT stuff but compiling it on another machine then just running the stuff on OpenWRT.
The above noted the support would probably come from some Almond + person familiar with the DSC API (guessing there is one there somewhere) and be able to talk to the DSC via a serial port or network connection.
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Any progress on this aspect ? I would love to integrate home alarm to Almond + either through Ad2usb or envisalink evl3.
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Bump.
any news on integrating DSC or Envisilink into the almond?