Securifi Community Forum

Securifi Products => Almond+ => Topic started by: picomo on March 06, 2014, 10:26:06 am

Title: How close are we to shipment date?
Post by: picomo on March 06, 2014, 10:26:06 am
Kind of getting anxious here....
Title: Re: How close are we to shipment date?
Post by: LGNilsson on March 06, 2014, 10:33:08 am
We're about to get the remaining beta/dev units out next week. We're going to post an update about what's going on over at Kickstarter as well, although it won't be tomorrow, but it should be by the end of next week. Sorry I can't be more precise at the moment.
Title: Re: How close are we to shipment date?
Post by: generationxile on March 13, 2014, 06:41:00 pm
So is there an estimate yet for when these are to be shipped out? Just an estimate would be appreciated.
Title: Re: How close are we to shipment date?
Post by: LGNilsson on March 14, 2014, 01:02:10 am
We'll be posting an update on Kickstarter today.
Title: Re: How close are we to shipment date?
Post by: generationxile on March 19, 2014, 06:08:34 pm
Thanks for all your hard work Ladies and Gents, and thanks for the updates. It does go a long way to take the edge off the waiting. Keep up the good work!
Title: Re: How close are we to shipment date?
Post by: LGNilsson on March 19, 2014, 10:02:35 pm
It's nice to hear that the updates help, although we're as frustrated as you are with the delays.
The beta and developer units are continually being shipped out though, so progress is being made, it just takes some time to get things done, especially right now as each unit is done by hand in our offices.
Of course once we go into mass production, we'll do the whole production run in a weeks time or so, as our manufacturing partner has the resources to put out multiple thousands of units a day.
We'll be sharing some more things with you all on Friday.
Title: Re: How close are we to shipment date?
Post by: VJ on March 23, 2014, 12:05:12 pm
I'm really hoping soon... I signed up for the pre-order via mail...
My current router (an 9 year old Linksys WRT54GC) is beginning to act up, loosing connections, and I just hope it will keep on going until I can order the Almond+...  :)
Title: Re: How close are we to shipment date?
Post by: VJ on April 22, 2014, 04:48:59 am
Any news? I'm not on the kickstarter, but registered to be notified about the pre-ordering options... :)
Title: Re: How close are we to shipment date?
Post by: LGNilsson on April 22, 2014, 05:22:51 am
We'll be posting an update on Kickstarter on Friday with regards to production and shipping to our Kickstarter backers.
As for pre-order options, I need to check and see what's been decided.
Title: Re: How close are we to shipment date?
Post by: AARON on April 22, 2014, 08:15:04 pm
wait for the new post, just like the old posts... "We are sooo close."

Closer than the last time you said you were about to ship?
Closer than the time you said it 6 months ago?

At this point I'm not even sure I want this thing... I've lost all confidence Securifi can deliver on anything resembling a decent Home Automation platform/app ... I already bought an ASUS router so no need for an new router. I wanted a better router and did not want to wait another year for an Almond+ not knowing if it would be any good for routing anyway.

So... it seems like simply donated (lit some cash on fire) to fund your hobby.

Title: Re: How close are we to shipment date?
Post by: LGNilsson on April 22, 2014, 09:23:33 pm
Well, if you're certain you don't want it, it's not a problem getting a refund. We're sorry it's taken so long, but sadly this is sometimes the case during product development. We did more or less start from scratch with the new platform and we hit a few unexpected snags that lead to longer delays than we anticipated.
Title: Re: How close are we to shipment date?
Post by: VJ on April 23, 2014, 06:00:25 am
It was actually one of the reasons I did not fund the kickstarter: it looked very ambitious from a rather small player in the router market. At the same time, the propsed features are one way of distinguishing from other routers, and might nicely complement my home automation system, so I followed it since quite early on.
It is a long time, and I would also be a but frustrated if I'd have backed it. I do appreciate the extensive communication, and the fast responses, and am still convinced the end product could be worth it.

My demands for a router are not so high, and almost any router would do for me (currently managing with a 9 year old linksys): my whole network is wired using a professional gigabit switch. By necessity: my apartment has 30 cm concrete walls with metal support frames and granite fragments (one of the consequences of living in a former communist building :-)). I'm happy my current router holds out as long as it does, but am worried it is dying soon...
Title: Re: How close are we to shipment date?
Post by: LGNilsson on April 23, 2014, 06:50:57 am
Well, what everyone seems to forget is that in May we announced to our backers that we would start over on a new hardware and software platform. To be honest, we severely underestimated the time it would take us to get the new platform to the state where it is today, but the end product will be vastly much better in the end.
We're as frustrated by the delays as any of you, as we really expected to have shipped the Almond+ to all of our backers now.
Things will be a lot more clear come Friday's update.
Title: Re: How close are we to shipment date?
Post by: VJ on April 24, 2014, 03:34:41 am
I registered here to get more updates, and your posts are still reassuring me. :)
Title: Re: How close are we to shipment date?
Post by: pete on April 24, 2014, 06:39:35 pm
Quote
30 cm concrete walls with metal support frames and granite fragments

So are you using a wireless access point today and your Gb Ethernet switch?

Yup; here  we have metal conduit in the walls which does probably cause some multipath issues.

Mostly do utilize the wired Gb links except for those tablet and notebooks that wander aimlessly 'round the house.

Title: Re: How close are we to shipment date?
Post by: VJ on April 25, 2014, 03:07:01 am
I currently use an old Linksys (WRT54GC, unfortunately not compatible with OpenWRT) as router and as wireless access point (802.11g). Its main functionality is DHCP server and it is central enough in the apartment to provide wireless access to wireless devices, but e.g. skype with video is problematic and file transfers tend to be slow (partly due to the building, partly probably due to the fact that it is an old router).
When renovating the flat, I put Cat6 cable everywhere, and everything is connected to a DLink DGS-1210-20 (20 port gigabit switch - quite overkill, I got a good deal on it :-)). So now, normally I use wired network (plugging in a laptop or so is easy enough, especially as almost all utp wall sockets are connected) unless it is for something small, in which case wifi is good enough (but even though it is a small apartment, some rooms don't have reception).

Normally, you would hide a router, but I could actually put the Almond+ differently. First idea was in the corridor: it would be very central in the apartment, and the display could show information such as weather info or home automation control (if I manage to integrate it). But I don't have enough cables running there (2 ethernet cables, but one is used for the phone line). This could be solved by also moving my modem there, but in that case, the additional ethernet ports and the usb ports on the Almond+ would not really be used much.
My current idea is actually in the livingroom (luckily I have enough cables in the walls to go from the modem to the router and from the router to the switch, and to two other ethernet ports), use its screen to control home automation (hoping I can integrate it), have ethernet sockets more easily available (not behind the couch) for e.g. a laptop and have wireless in the rooms where it would be most interesting. As long as my Linksys still works, I could even set that one as an access point in the other side of the apartment, and have better coverage in other rooms.
Last alternative is a different location in the corridor, but not sure how easy that would be to make the screen accessible. And if integration with home automation does not work well for my purpose (or takes me too long), I can always put it like any other router. :-)

edit: and back on topic, the announcement is interesting...
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/2037429657/almond-80211ac-touchscreen-wifi-router-smart-home/posts
Almost May, so about 1 month - 1.5 months till production might start... The good news is that it seems to be related to the delivery of a single component, implying that all other issues are ironed out. :)
Title: Re: How close are we to shipment date?
Post by: pete on April 25, 2014, 01:38:40 pm
Quote
I currently use an old Linksys (WRT54GC, unfortunately not compatible with OpenWRT) as router and as wireless access point (802.11g). Its main functionality is DHCP server and it is central enough in the apartment to provide wireless access to wireless devices, but e.g. skype with video is problematic and file transfers tend to be slow (partly due to the building, partly probably due to the fact that it is an old router).

Yup here a few years ago went to just utilizing the WRT54GL model for DD-WRT and the Buffalo  WRT-HP-G54 mostly just for DD-WRT.  I have though a variety of different AP's that I put DD-WRT on to play with.  You can purchase better antennas and a wall mount for your Linksys combo to provide a better footprint of what you are using today (unless you have already done this?). 

I initially did start in this house with commercial Cisco Access Points (well it was more related to work though).  In the last few years I did move to utilizing an Ubiquti AP.  This was the first AP that I didn't replace the OS on in a few years; it just worked out of the box fine for me.  I did recently though replace a WRT54GL cuz the radio burned up.  Probably cuz I was pushing it a bit.  I am now playing with wireless touch screen tablets and have now found a new mini pcie 802.11 AC device to test in them.  The wireless tablets are configured to stream SD and HD video today and do work OK with XBMC and some propietary automation software.

Quote
When renovating the flat, I put Cat6 cable everywhere, and everything is connected to a DLink DGS-1210-20 (20 port gigabit switch - quite overkill, I got a good deal on it :-)). So now, normally I use wired network (plugging in a laptop or so is easy enough, especially as almost all utp wall sockets are connected) unless it is for something small, in which case wifi is good enough (but even though it is a small apartment, some rooms don't have reception).

You can walk around with a cell phone today using a wireless application to check on the footprint of your wireless.  Doing this you can adjust the location of your AP and upgrade the antennas and or utilize the Almond +.

Concurrent here (pro bono) doing an office (well multiple sub offices in one large facility) with masonry walls and dealing with similar issues that you are having right now.  Initially assumption for this office was to utilize wireless for everything (Desktops, printers, et al).

I recently ran new CatXX cable to two bathrooms such that there is now Gb connectivity on a wall plate in said bathrooms mostly because the wireless wasn't fast enough for me (but that is me).
Title: Re: How close are we to shipment date?
Post by: AARON on April 26, 2014, 02:13:55 am
Well, what everyone seems to forget is that in May we announced to our backers that we would start over on a new hardware and software platform. To be honest, we severely underestimated the time it would take us to get the new platform to the state where it is today, but the end product will be vastly much better in the end.
We're as frustrated by the delays as any of you, as we really expected to have shipped the Almond+ to all of our backers now.
Things will be a lot more clear come Friday's update.

Lars,
The Friday update did not provide any more confidence... just more confirmations of delays. At this point any promises or ETA are not going to be believed by anyone following this for the past 6 months. How many times have you said... almost there or  just one more test or certification or, or, or?

If you think I don't understand product development you are very wrong my friend. I worked for (W2 employee) Microsoft, Dell, HP, and have run software dev teams, and consulted and ran technical projects on many IT subjects for many fortune 500/100 companies - I have a nearly 20 year career in technology.  I'd be surprised if your router strays far from a reference hardware design and, correct me if I'm wrong, but your software is based on open source for the router - not sure about the HA? 

I backed this because I thought you guys had your sh-t together having already put out a product - and that you'd be bringing to market something much earlier than many others in the same markets... AC routing & HA (independent of each other). I really only cared about the AH part - routers are a dime a dozen and the cheapest ones work pretty darn good and more than enough feature/performance for 99% of the user market. Adding another router to the market it like adding a gallon of water to the Pacific Ocean.

I'll stop complaining now and just hope that this thing is worth something for HA when it ships. Maybe it can serve as a Zigbee interface for my Vera.
Title: Re: How close are we to shipment date?
Post by: LGNilsson on April 26, 2014, 02:31:28 am
Well, we have passed the EMI test, but as per what we explained in a comment, we have to change the USB 3.0 connector as the one we were using caused some issues and changing it to one from a different manufacturer solved these issues.

We're not trying to make things up as we go along and we're well aware that many of our backers are engineers, product developers and what not. The truth is that we've had way too many unforeseen issues that we've had to deal with that have caused far too many delays on our side. We're also aware it's starting to make us really bad, but there's only so much we can do about it, but yes, it's getting quite embarrassing.

Our board design is anything but a reference design. Cortina that makes the processor provided a reference board that was designed for NAS/STB type products and Qualcomm provided mini PCIe cards for Wi-Fi. We've had to make all this work together, add USB 3.0 support (we're using an ASMedia ASM1042A controller if you're interested), add support for the touch screen and of course home automation. We're as far as I'm aware, the only router manufacturer that has a two tier PCB and this was done to try to make the Almond+ more compact. It's a very unique design and on top of this, we've made some massive changes on the software side to make all of this work well together. Maybe we bit off a bit more than we could chew when we decided to move from the original MIPS based platform to the current ARM Cortex-A9 based platform, but we've chewed through it and gotten to a point where we're ready to go into production in a few weeks time.

I joined the company shortly after the Kickstarter campaign ended which was also shortly before we decided to change the hardware platform and I've seen the development first hand. We've had some real challenges to overcome, but we've also had to do a lot of software development outside of what we expected to have to do due to the development platform that we were given didn't meet our expectations and this is in part what has caused the delays.

Your frustration is equally shared within Securifi, we honestly didn't expect to be this late and I feel personally embarrassed every time I have to put up a post about another delay on Kickstarter. It sucks and there's nothing else I can say about that.

I do hope you'll use your Almond+ for something much more than a ZigBee interface for your Vera though and I hope you'll want to be part of the community here that will make the Almond+ the kind of product that you'll love to own and use.
Title: Re: How close are we to shipment date?
Post by: Automate on April 26, 2014, 08:16:15 am
we've also had to do a lot of software development outside of what we expected to have to do due to the development platform that we were given didn't meet our expectations and this is in part what has caused the delays.

Can you elaborate on this?  I know you switched to OpenWrt but I didn't think the  UI, HA, Zigbee, Zwave functionality has significantly changed since KS.  I would also think using the more powerful and popular ARM over MIPS would make some of the software development easier.
Title: Re: How close are we to shipment date?
Post by: LGNilsson on April 26, 2014, 09:30:48 am
As you may or may not know, embedded Linux distributions sadly don't follow the standard Linux roadmap and what we were given with the development kit was a working version of OpenWRT, albeit far from finished for a retail product. We've had to work with Cortina and QCA to get Wi-Fi working properly on the platform and we've worked with ASMedia to get their drivers onto the platform.
These are things that are normally already part of the package when you get a reference design for a product like this, but as Cortina doesn't offer a complete solution with Wi-Fi etc. this wasn't part of their standard development platform.

On top of this we've created our own user interface, local sensor/device control and SDK among many other things. We've updated several applications that came as part of OpenWRT as well, as some of those were not suitable for our needs, or as in the case of OpenSSL, there was a "small" bug...
The HA part has also required a lot of additional work as the current platform is quite different in terms of its peripheral interfaces and we've had to do a lot of changes here, as well as for the LCD UI, including writing some new drivers from scratch for the touch screen. Keep in mind that we had to redo the entire LCD UI, as we went from a 320x240 display to a 480x320 display. We're still making improvements with regards to how some things work here to try to make the user experience as good as possible.

Yes, the ARM processor is a lot more powerful, but it has very little to do with the development process, as the software is being developed on PC's, not on the router itself. What it has allowed us to do is to build a router that will be a lot more capable in comparison to the original Almond+. For example, it'll be very possible to replace a home NAS with it, as the USB 3.0 performance is exceptionally good, but more on that soon.

Keep in mind that we're still a comparatively small company, but as an example, when we switched to OpenWRT, our UI developer had never coded for Lua/LuCI in his life before and it took him a mere three weeks to create the initial version of of NutsOS. That said, we've refined it and improved since then and it still need some additional spit and polish, but it has nothing in common with the standard OpenWRT UI.

I know you guys are getting frustrated, but believe me when I say that so are we. In hindsight maybe we should've done things differently and we could've had the Almond+ with you earlier, but I'm not sure it would've been as a unique product as what we have today. Yes 802.11ac routers a commonplace today, but the Almond+ is not a run of the mill router. If you just want a router, then the Almond+ is most likely going to be overkill for your needs, but for all of those of you that are interested in getting a unique product that can do so much more than just shuffle data between your devices and the internet, the Almond+ is something that none of our competitors can offer. We're only scratching the surface of the home automation side of things and we're here to work with you guys to make this a great product. In fact, I believe our work has only started once we've shipped the Kickstarter units, as that is when we'll be getting proper feedback and requests from everyone.
Title: Re: How close are we to shipment date?
Post by: VJ on April 28, 2014, 03:47:44 am
You can walk around with a cell phone today using a wireless application to check on the footprint of your wireless.  Doing this you can adjust the location of your AP and upgrade the antennas and or utilize the Almond +.
The router is currently in the best possible place. Not all walls are the same, so even though my signal stops dead after 1-2 walls, I still see a lot of wireless networks. Of course, also not very helpful. :-) A mobie phone signal does not reach the bathroom (some days).

So I assume that wireless is better avoided for performance things. It is a bit more difficult to find eg internet radio's or so with ethernet connector, but it is not impossible.

As I have a good switch, I don't need much from a router, but I like the Almond+ featureset. i'm hoping to integrate it with my system (and use the screen as interface). It would be a low cost solution, but fun to play around with.
Title: Re: How close are we to shipment date?
Post by: pete on April 28, 2014, 08:10:36 am
Yup; here a bit of a history buff.  Primary endeavor is wireless; the area has some history.  Same issues as you related to wireless signals.

Title: Re: How close are we to shipment date?
Post by: eldaria on April 28, 2014, 12:04:41 pm
Wow, has this topic gone off-topic. ;-)
Title: Re: How close are we to shipment date?
Post by: VJ on April 29, 2014, 03:04:10 am
Yes... sorry.... :-)

Back on topic... Just one component to wait for before the production of the Almond+ can start, and this is expected May-June...
Of course the long delay is frustrating, and my guess is that if it were not for Kickstarter, they might have abandonded the Almond+ and directly started on its successor, due to the numerous things that came up. Because of the kickstarter, I think the company had to follow through with it.
I'm for one glad they did, and glad that they decided to upgrade the devices (rather than delivering a barely workable product).
Title: Re: How close are we to shipment date?
Post by: eldaria on April 29, 2014, 03:44:36 am
Hmm, i'm not sure that they would have abandon the Almond+, well in theory they already did.
What we get is much better than what was originally planned, so the original design was abandoned, with the upgrade of the internal hardware that was announced quite a while ago.

I think the process we see is something we consumers normally do not see.
Probably a lot of products never make it to the market, many get redesigned, and all the hurdles that we see Securifi going through is something most hardware manufacturers go through, we just never see it.
I have taken part in quite a few KS by now, Almond was among some of the first, and in my experience pretty much all hardware or electronics projects will not meet the time frame promised.
So well considering the complexity of a device such as the Almond+, I have an understanding for the delays, some of these delays are completely out of Securifi's control, some are even due to Natural disasters that effected not only Securifi, but also a few other Kickstarters that depended on memory chips.
Title: Re: How close are we to shipment date?
Post by: LGNilsson on April 29, 2014, 04:07:48 am
Well, technically we did scrap the Almond+, at least the original hardware and most of the software we'd done to that point in time.
What we have now is a much more capable, but also much more expensive product, least not due to all the various upgraded components such as processor, memory (both RAM and Flash), USB 3.0, larger screen etc. and it all adds up. Yes, we were aware of this when we moved to the new platform, but I just want to let you all know that if you thought the original Almond+ hardware was a bargain, it's now even more of a bargain even if we're very late in delivering the product.

The original Almond+ would've worked just fine, it just wouldn't have had a very long shelf life and it wouldn't have offered the kind of functionality a lot of our backers were hoping for. It didn't have an open source operating system and the hardware would've been somewhat lacking when it comes to third party integration and any kind of expandability.
It wasn't a bad product as such, but it didn't live up to our expectations of what we wanted to offer our customers and we think we would've had a lot more unhappy backers once we started shipping than we'll have with the product we'll be shipping now.

Yes, we've had some hurdles on the way and we're not going to go out and say that we're happy how things have progressed, as it's taken far to long to get certain things done. That said, if we decide to do other Kickstarter projects in the future, we know what not to do and we won't be repeating the mistakes we've done with the Almond+.

Like a couple of people commented on Kickstarter, in most cases when you buy a product in retail you know very little about the development efforts behind it and usually don't care for that matter, unless somethings goes wrong with it and there's a recall and the media publishes some details. Maybe we haven't been quite as forthcoming as we wish we could've been, but this has been a bit of a sensitive project as well, since we don't want our competitors to copy us. The original Almond has already been copied by a company in China, although they're using a smaller screen, but added 433Mbps 802.11ac support to it. It's a bit different shape, but it's pretty much the same idea. As the Almond+ is a far more complex product, it's not quite as easy to copy, but we don't have unlimited opportunity to launch it. The delays has caused a lot of frustration for us, as we really want to get the Almond+ not just to our Kickstarter backers, but also to everyone else that has shown interest in it after the Kickstarter campaign.

The Almond+ has been a challenge, but we hope you'll all agree it was worth the wait in the end.
Title: Re: How close are we to shipment date?
Post by: pete on April 29, 2014, 07:58:46 am
Thank-you Lars!

Yup; here on board and I personally sincerely appreciate the open candor that Securifi has demonstrated relating to the evolution of the Almond + (both hardware and software).

Title: Re: How close are we to shipment date?
Post by: VJ on April 30, 2014, 03:43:35 am
I agree with Pete... What happened must have been a coorporate and PR nightmare, but the communication was as good as it can be. :)
Title: Re: How close are we to shipment date?
Post by: mrv777 on May 02, 2014, 01:58:17 pm
I just wanted to say that I appreciate all the work on the Almond+, the upgrades you've done to the hardware, and the updates to keep us in the loop.

Thanks!
Title: Re: How close are we to shipment date?
Post by: AARON on May 04, 2014, 01:59:40 am
As you may or may not know, embedded Linux distributions sadly don't follow the standard Linux roadmap and what we were given with the development kit was a working version of OpenWRT, albeit far from finished for a retail product. We've had to work with Cortina and QCA to get Wi-Fi working properly on the platform and we've worked with ASMedia to get their drivers onto the platform.
These are things that are normally already part of the package when you get a reference design for a product like this, but as Cortina doesn't offer a complete solution with Wi-Fi etc. this wasn't part of their standard development platform.

On top of this we've created our own user interface, local sensor/device control and SDK among many other things. We've updated several applications that came as part of OpenWRT as well, as some of those were not suitable for our needs, or as in the case of OpenSSL, there was a "small" bug...
The HA part has also required a lot of additional work as the current platform is quite different in terms of its peripheral interfaces and we've had to do a lot of changes here, as well as for the LCD UI, including writing some new drivers from scratch for the touch screen. Keep in mind that we had to redo the entire LCD UI, as we went from a 320x240 display to a 480x320 display. We're still making improvements with regards to how some things work here to try to make the user experience as good as possible.

Yes, the ARM processor is a lot more powerful, but it has very little to do with the development process, as the software is being developed on PC's, not on the router itself. What it has allowed us to do is to build a router that will be a lot more capable in comparison to the original Almond+. For example, it'll be very possible to replace a home NAS with it, as the USB 3.0 performance is exceptionally good, but more on that soon.

Keep in mind that we're still a comparatively small company, but as an example, when we switched to OpenWRT, our UI developer had never coded for Lua/LuCI in his life before and it took him a mere three weeks to create the initial version of of NutsOS. That said, we've refined it and improved since then and it still need some additional spit and polish, but it has nothing in common with the standard OpenWRT UI.

I know you guys are getting frustrated, but believe me when I say that so are we. In hindsight maybe we should've done things differently and we could've had the Almond+ with you earlier, but I'm not sure it would've been as a unique product as what we have today. Yes 802.11ac routers a commonplace today, but the Almond+ is not a run of the mill router. If you just want a router, then the Almond+ is most likely going to be overkill for your needs, but for all of those of you that are interested in getting a unique product that can do so much more than just shuffle data between your devices and the internet, the Almond+ is something that none of our competitors can offer. We're only scratching the surface of the home automation side of things and we're here to work with you guys to make this a great product. In fact, I believe our work has only started once we've shipped the Kickstarter units, as that is when we'll be getting proper feedback and requests from everyone.

Lars,
questions and comment on a few of your points...

'unique product'
- can you elaborate on what will make this device different than anything else?  I'm asking, beyond the combining of a router with an HA controller?

'very possible to replace a home NAS'
- What makes Almond+ stand out and make me want to kick my Synology to the curb?
- Many, many routers do this, at a very basic level, today or even better, so does a $20 Pogo Plug or RasberryPi. Netgear/ASUS's most recent AC routers serve USB3 drives fine and pretty quickly. They are absolutely not going to replace a Synology, QNAP, etc

I'm concerned about ongoing development being slow and potentially overwhelming for Securifi
- you made it clear you entered unknown waters with the chosen hardware platform. This is a bit concerning itself. As you seem to have already seen, you are in the water by yourself - no help from friends that have already swam there. Unlike using a reference design as a base where there is tons of community knowledge.
- Touchscreen is unnecessary and should have never been in the product. But since it is, you will be and already are, spending cycles to support a feature that few will use, has limited use for those that will, and time could be better spent on coding more important things.


I've seen no community outreach to help design the HA parts/app
- you have spoken about how it will be great but you are so far behind on everything and we've seen nothing on the HA at all. You are not even asking for input on the workflow design, feature set, etc.  How many HA systems have you guys designed? How many have you used? What apps do you like or have inspired you? What do you think it core to making an HA system work properly, easily, and be robust and extensible? Etc, etc, etc.


Many people gush on how "great your communication is" ... though your communication is 99% = 'we ran into another problem and another delay'
... nearly nothing about what you are supposed to be delivering in functionality. 

Wifi Routers are old hat and unless you are qualcomm (you are not), nothing you build is going to be better than what already exists. If you are as good as ASUS & Netgear's best I've be happily amazed.  The only thing I'm holding on for is you have a sliver of chance to make a great HA platform BUT I've seen absolutely no evidence you have any clue how to do that - because you are not sharing anything or asking for assistance. I'd LOVE for you to prove me wrong. Really I would. 

Stop typing the same old song and start showing us you have vision, brains, anything.

I know I'm a harsh critic - you have not provide ANY reason for me not to be.  Developing products is hard. But the biggest problem I find people have is they are not wise enough to know what they don't know... and go find out before they make the product. Seems you might be in this category also.


Title: Re: How close are we to shipment date?
Post by: LGNilsson on May 04, 2014, 07:25:47 am
Well, you're free to ask, but considering your tone, I'm not feeling very inclined to answer your questions.

You many think that certain features don't belong, but considering you haven't used the Almond+ yet (yes, that's our fault as we haven't delivered it yet) you clearly don't have the hands on experience to make claims as to what should or shouldn't be included.

If you're not happy with where the project is going, you have the right to ask for a refund, which seems to be what you're asking for here, or am I reading it wrong? Everything you've asked appears to be complaints, so clearly we're not meeting your expectations and maybe a refund is as such the right way for you to go.
Title: Re: How close are we to shipment date?
Post by: AARON on May 04, 2014, 10:29:51 am
Lars,
The reason I'm not happy about "where the project is going" is because you have provided zero information about the HA platform.

I have not asked for a refund because I backed this project for an HA platform ($20 routers work great, the world does not "need" another router even if it is better). AND I pray A+ can best Revolv, Vera, Smartthings, and others. Your community has zero information on the HA platform, thus no idea what you are building, your concept/ideas/etc.

We don't know...
1. Why you believe A+ has the best platform direction for HA  (concept, methodology, etc - not a hardware related question)
2. What do you like in other popular platforms you've seen?  (Homeseer, Control4, Vera, Revolv, Smarttings, ISY, Indigo, HCA, CQC, Cortexa, etc)
3. What don't you like in the popular platforms?
   - how are you addressing those problems?
4. What HA experience your team has - personally or professionally?
   - Maybe a ton? Maybe your designer worked for Crestron, Control4, or ? 

We simply have no info and thus no way to build confidence.

Build our confidence, Open the dialog... start a thread answering the above questions and starting Q&A, idea sharing, etc... if you don't this will be an answer within itself.
Title: Re: How close are we to shipment date?
Post by: eldaria on May 04, 2014, 12:14:39 pm
Hello Aaron.

I backed the Almond+ Mainly for the HA part.
And to me just the fact that it supports multiple standards is what made me pledge.
While I agree that I wish there were more information on the HA parts, mostly how we will control the logic in a smart home, i'm patient and wait for the developers to have something ready.

But even if Securifi for some odd reason fails to deliver on the HA side, well the platform has a SDK so it will not only be Securifi's systems we will see. It will be open to anyone with some skills to create something. And since everyone have different taste there will likely be different systems. This router will be very hacker friendly, and I truly believe that we will have a bunch of the people who are longing for a replacement of Linksys WRT54G for their hacking needs, and now they get HA also.

Some of the information you request is also reserved for the Beta and Developer levels, and some of the discussions that you look for has been taken place in those parts of the forum.

But even if i'm not associated with Securifi in any other way than pledging for the developer tier on Kickstarter and helping out with the forum and the wiki I can try to answer some of your questions.

Quote from: AARON
'unique product'
- can you elaborate on what will make this device different than anything else?  I'm asking, beyond the combining of a router with an HA controller?

How many of other systems has support for ZigBee, Zwave, Wifi at the same time? And with some hacking you can even add on USB, RS232 or other systems for your HA desires. In the same device you have a quite powerful Router with a feature set and hardware specifications that goes beyond most routers in the same price range. And then also tell me how many of those devices come with an SDK and a platform that promotes you to create your own software for the device?

Quote
'very possible to replace a home NAS'
- What makes Almond+ stand out and make me want to kick my Synology to the curb?
- Many, many routers do this, at a very basic level, today or even better, so does a $20 Pogo Plug or RasberryPi. Netgear/ASUS's most recent AC routers serve USB3 drives fine and pretty quickly. They are absolutely not going to replace a Synology, QNAP, etc

Sure, there are a lot of things out there that can act as a NAS now, most somewhat modern routers have some kind of NAS functionality. Personally I will likely not be using this function as I have a full fledged home server with ZFS.
But from what I have seen the Almond+ has amazing throughput on the USB3, something I have seen complaints about in other products. But think a bit further, since the Almond+ allows for third party software, we could see new things like personal clouds, backup systems, or things I can't even think of right now.

Quote
I'm concerned about ongoing development being slow and potentially overwhelming for Securifi
- you made it clear you entered unknown waters with the chosen hardware platform. This is a bit concerning itself. As you seem to have already seen, you are in the water by yourself - no help from friends that have already swam there. Unlike using a reference design as a base where there is tons of community knowledge.
- Touchscreen is unnecessary and should have never been in the product. But since it is, you will be and already are, spending cycles to support a feature that few will use, has limited use for those that will, and time could be better spent on coding more important things.

I will leave it to Securifi to decide if they want to answer regarding the developing of the platform so I will only comment on the touchscreen.
If it is unnecessary or not is subjective, you find it unnecessary, I find it not so useful (yet) and I wished that it had been big enough to act as a picture frame. But I also understand that the cost would be much higher. But since I plan to place the router somewhat central, I might use it as a extra control for setting the home automation features.
I read that others wanted it for quickly setting the Wifi off or on, or have a weather app, etc, etc. So some do find it useful, and it is kind of a signature feature for Securifi.

Quote
I've seen no community outreach to help design the HA parts/app
- you have spoken about how it will be great but you are so far behind on everything and we've seen nothing on the HA at all. You are not even asking for input on the workflow design, feature set, etc.  How many HA systems have you guys designed? How many have you used? What apps do you like or have inspired you? What do you think it core to making an HA system work properly, easily, and be robust and extensible? Etc, etc, etc.

Again you are not a developer or a beta tester so you only see a small amount of the forum, there are sections completely dedicated to home automation, testing of sensors, development, etc.
I for my part have given plenty of input on my wishes and suggestions for Home Automation, others have tested hundreds of different sensors, and Securifi is testing internally also.
And from what I understood they have specific people assigned to just working on the HA parts.

Quote
Many people gush on how "great your communication is" ... though your communication is 99% = 'we ran into another problem and another delay'
... nearly nothing about what you are supposed to be delivering in functionality. 

Wifi Routers are old hat and unless you are qualcomm (you are not), nothing you build is going to be better than what already exists. If you are as good as ASUS & Netgear's best I've be happily amazed.  The only thing I'm holding on for is you have a sliver of chance to make a great HA platform BUT I've seen absolutely no evidence you have any clue how to do that - because you are not sharing anything or asking for assistance. I'd LOVE for you to prove me wrong. Really I would. 

Stop typing the same old song and start showing us you have vision, brains, anything.

I know I'm a harsh critic - you have not provide ANY reason for me not to be.  Developing products is hard. But the biggest problem I find people have is they are not wise enough to know what they don't know... and go find out before they make the product. Seems you might be in this category also.

This is where you dropped the ball, and the tone went down the drain, I think you are border-lining on being a troll. Too many unwarranted CAPITALS, rhetoric and false statements.
You are expecting information that you could probably have asked in the developer forum had you access to it, yes Securifi has had a few delays, but there has been plenty of other information also, and saying that 99% is about delays is just silly.

Comparing to ASUS or Netgear who have massive budgets, and huge R&D departments is also not really fair. Even though I think Almond+ will be a way better platform than anything they have produced, being small Securifi is also forced to try harder and is much more responsive to support questions. And they do not have to prove anything to anyone outside the Beta and Developers until the product is done.

I don't see what right you have to be a critic when you have not even tried and used the product, I think that is reason enough.

Securifi also has competitors, there is even a blatant ripoff copy of the design out there, so Securifi also has to be careful not to give out to much of the details on what the final product will have in terms of UI or features.

I also believe the product to become better and better long after it is released, when the community get's going.
Title: Re: How close are we to shipment date?
Post by: AARON on May 04, 2014, 12:39:20 pm
eldaria
I appreciate you stepping up to give some information. At this point, it is more that Securifi has said - thus, key to my discontent.

While on one hand I understand some of the discussion being limited to the developer community. The complete lack of information is concerning... please understand the view from this side of the wall.
You have a vantage point not visible from where I stand since you are a developer.  I did not worry about anything until a few months ago... when I'm seeing nothing of substance for HA being posted (feature discussion, screenshots, methodology, etc) and hardware is being delayed 6+ months, it starts to make some of us think maybe there is nothing happening on the HA front. Marketing & PR 101 teaches at least leak some information and open a community dialog... there are many benefits to this. This would help Securifi more than they know, not just with me.

None the less. I'm not in the know, and I'm waiting to see if Lars & Team decides to open the curtain a bit to allow non-developers to be involved at this point. I think we deserve the respect of having input given the product is so late to market. And they might even benefit from wisdom of the masses. While I love developers, they don't always make the best designers - end users usually do.
Title: Re: How close are we to shipment date?
Post by: LGNilsson on May 05, 2014, 12:01:38 am
Just out of curiosity, do you read any of the updates we post on Kickstarter? We've posted quite a few videos showing off various features and although they haven't been super detailed, it's not as if we're trying to hide anything.

I'll freely admit that we're not home automation experts, which brings with it advantages and disadvantages. The main advantage is that we don't have any "baggage" i.e. no bad habits when it comes to creating a platform. We're trying to bring something to market that's easy to use and requires less prior knowledge than current solutions in the market.

I've been using a Vera Lite at home for some 9+ months by now and I've found it very frustrating to use. Yes, it has a lot of really powerful features and hundreds of add-ons, of which I've used exactly one. It has a UI that looks 15 years old at best and the mobile app is really lacking. That said, it has a place in the market for those users that want to tinker with anything and everything. We're not going to be at that point for quite some time, regardless of developer community or not.

I've also tried SmartThings, their software was terrible at launch, but it's slowly getting better. My main concern here is that they seem to be slow at adding support for devices and there's virtually no support for anything ZigBee related except the few sensors they make. Yes, they've managed to build an ok developer community and they've had third parties add support for various IP based devices. Speaking of delays, they have as yet to ship to all their Kickstarter backers...

We also have a Revolv in the office which has a terrible mobile app, more radio's than you can shake a stick at, yet barely anything is working. Oh and it only works with iOS at the moment. For $299, it's a rip-off imho.

We also have a few other devices like the Belkin Wemo, Philips Hue and what not.

However, our focus is on ZigBee and Z-Wave with the Almond+ as we believe making these standards easy to use, will really make them appeal to consumers. You rate the LCD UI, but thanks to it, it takes about 5 seconds to add a sensors, not taking into account the time it takes for the Almond+ to detect what features the sensor has, as this can vary from sensor to sensor. You can also instantly rename and add a location for your sensors as they're added and the LCD UI gives you basic control over the sensors so you can test that they work as you add them. One features that we've added in recent firmware builds is local sensor control from within the web UI of the Almond+ and the only other devices that has something similar are the Vera's. That said, if you want to use mobile apps, you have to sign up to our cloud service, but we offer both Android, iOS and again web based control support here.

The automation part is still being worked on and the plan is to get this ready as soon as possible and then get feedback from our backers so we can tweak and tune things to make it better. So far we haven't shared anything  about this, since due to various reasons, this is later than we'd hoped for and not in a share-able state, but we hope to have this ready for our beta/dev backers in a few weeks time. You'll be able to be part of the community to help push this in whatever direction our customers want it to go, within limits. I'm sure it'll have plenty flaws when we launch it and I'm sure it won't appeal to everyone, but then again, it's impossible to please everyone and that's why there are so many different solutions out there.

I'm not sure if this has helped answer any of your real concerns here, but we're in this for the long term and we know we have a lot of work in front of us once we've shipped the Almond+ to all of our backers.