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General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: dsmiley on September 16, 2013, 05:36:20 am

Title: Does the Almond need a UPS
Post by: dsmiley on September 16, 2013, 05:36:20 am
We have occasional short power outages in our area that just last a moment or two.  Does the Almond come back on with its previous settings after such an event or does it need a UPS to prevent losing its power?  Thanks.
Title: Re: Does the Almond need a UPS
Post by: eldaria on September 16, 2013, 04:54:00 pm
Actually under such circumstances I would recommend a UPS with Built in filter in any case.
If the power is unstable like this, usually the power is also "unclean" with spikes and power drops.
This can be unhealthy for electronics, so having a UPS gives you a more regular power.

I bought a not too expensive UPS from CyberPower, and all my electronics is connected through it, some are only on the Filter, other also have battery backup, like the HTPC, Computer, Router, SIP adapter, Network Switch, External Harddrives, Night lights and TimeCapsule. On the Filter I connected the rest, TV, Consoles, HIFI.

This way should the power fail, I can still use the phone, (Assuming the internet still works to my house), keep the computer running long enough (~45 minutes) to shut down safely, and be able to see since I also have some lights connected.  And all equipment is filtered against spikes and other noise on the electric line.

Title: Re: Does the Almond need a UPS
Post by: dsmiley on September 16, 2013, 05:43:46 pm
I still would like to know the answer to the first part of my question, "Does the Almond come back on with its previous settings after such an event..."

Thanks.

Title: Re: Does the Almond need a UPS
Post by: LGNilsson on September 16, 2013, 10:49:27 pm
Yes, the Almond would come back on in such an event and as all the settings are saved in flash memory, there's no need to worry about it being reset.
Title: Re: Does the Almond need a UPS
Post by: dsmiley on September 17, 2013, 09:00:58 am
Thanks for the help.  I'm placing my order today.
Title: Re: Does the Almond need a UPS
Post by: Pestus on February 11, 2014, 01:35:32 am
The larger your home automation network will be, the more a UPS is helpful anyways.  Keeps the heart of the home beating, which can influence a myriad of devices.  I'd do it anyways, if you'll be running security, climate control, or similar through it.
Title: Re: Does the Almond need a UPS
Post by: Patrick Wilson on February 12, 2014, 12:52:34 am
The larger your home automation network will be, the more a UPS is helpful anyways.  Keeps the heart of the home beating, which can influence a myriad of devices.  I'd do it anyways, if you'll be running security, climate control, or similar through it.

I'm with you on this issue.  My Router,  Modem,  and NAS (Network Attached Storage) device are all connected to a 1200VA UPS.  I celebrate "Power Outages" here,  by watching Movies from my NAS on my Laptop.   

My Girlfriend is techo-savvy enough to understand that Laptops continue to run during Power outages,  but it took her a year to notice that the Router and the NAS are still operational during Power Outages.  (She'll get really confused when my Almond+ gets here,  as I will add a low-wattage LED Lamp to my UPS once I can control it via my Android phone). 
Title: Re: Does the Almond need a UPS
Post by: Pestus on February 12, 2014, 08:22:20 am
Yeah, I've got a Synology 4 bay for the sake of my business.  It's also our media server.  Fantastic stuff.  I had considered going x86 and running FreeNAS, but I was in a hurry when I bought this piece.  I don't regret it.  My UPS is an APC 1000VA model and I love how it works with the NAS.  Through the USB port, the NAS can monitor the battery level, and park it's hard drives right before powering itself down when the batteries go low.  This prevents an unlikely disk error, and prevents a full discharge on the batteries, protecting them too.  I also get email notifications when my power goes out, which can be very handy.
Title: Re: Does the Almond need a UPS
Post by: LGNilsson on February 12, 2014, 08:23:44 am
If you considered FreeNAS, have a look at OpenMediaVault instead, much nicer imho.

Which Synology do you have? We got an Atom based on in the office for backup etc.

Never really used a UPS though, but then again, I've never lived anywhere where brownouts/blackouts are common.
Title: Re: Does the Almond need a UPS
Post by: Pestus on February 12, 2014, 08:34:29 am
Mine is a Synology 411+.   It's unfortunately just a little too weak to support transcoding, but it does DLNA really well despite this.  I ended up getting a WD Live TV media player as it could handle some of the rich MKV files on it's own.  (My PS3 couldn't handle some files without transcoding)  On a side note, the WD Live TV media player is very easy to integrate into a HA design, if anyone wants that info.

We use the Synology cloud software to do our own in house 'dropbox' style set up on our work computers.  That feature alone is worth getting a NAS of some kind.

OpenMediaVault you say.  I have a friend who wants to build his own, I think I'll offer up that suggestion to him.

I've used UPS systems extensively over many years.  The added benefit of these is less dying parts when they age.  I'm of the opinion that most consumer electronics die due to electrostatic damage.  A power spike can damage it, and you see no symptoms for years, when it decided to just stop working, or it gets senile.  If your UPS is good enough to convert it's power output sign wave to a stepped output, it can extend the life of anything behind it.  At least in theory.
Title: Re: Does the Almond need a UPS
Post by: LGNilsson on February 12, 2014, 10:08:08 am
Yeah, none of the Atom powered NAS:es will do transcoding properly, although Intel claims that some of the latest CE5300-series of Atom chips should be able to do to real time transcoding, although I highly doubt it.

What are you using the WD Live for in a HA setup?

Not really tried that one out in the office yet, but it looks ok.

Yeah, they have a VM you can test first, that way you can see if you like it or not.

I've got surge protectors, they should hopefully protect my gear against that, then again, I never have any really old stuff, as I keep upgrading and pass on the old bits to someone else  :P
Title: Re: Does the Almond need a UPS
Post by: Pestus on February 12, 2014, 06:13:04 pm
Quote
Yeah, none of the Atom powered NAS:es will do transcoding properly, although Intel claims that some of the latest CE5300-series of Atom chips should be able to do to real time transcoding, although I highly doubt it.

Oh I see.  So it's probably a CISC vs RISC thing.  You probably need a complex pipeline to handle the issue.  I remember back in the day, ripping DVDs took some significant processor demand.

Quote
What are you using the WD Live for in a HA setup?

Since I couldn't do transcoding for my old PS3, I needed something.  My father had one of these kicking around, so I put that in my LAN.  It's a bit underpowered, but it's very stable.  It has proper IR pronto codes, and a full suite of IP commands for all it's functions.   So, I added a Global Caché IP2IR for control.  This is basically a network box that acts as a universal remote control.  So I have IR outs that have stickies and are stuck to the IR ins of the WD box, and my TV.  I run iRule as a remote control on my phone and tablet to control them. 

I also have an Ouya with an android XBMC client that I can also use.  XBMC is a good avenue for you folks, for A/V integration by the way.  Cross platform, open source, and entirely controllable via HTTP post commands.  Well documented and exhaustive API here.  Not only does it work well with iRule, but I've got it talking to my Vera, sending me notifications on the top of my screen when my girlfriend comes home, and the like.  Hitting pause on XBMC will turn on my living room light, for another example.

Quote
Not really tried that one out in the office yet, but it looks ok.

I swear by the cloudstation software.  It's highly convenient.

Quote
Yeah, they have a VM you can test first, that way you can see if you like it or not.

Good to know, I'll recommend my buddy try this before he builds his box.

Quote
I've got surge protectors, they should hopefully protect my gear against that, then again, I never have any really old stuff, as I keep upgrading and pass on the old bits to someone else  :P

Yes they should!
Title: Re: Does the Almond need a UPS
Post by: LGNilsson on February 12, 2014, 09:20:29 pm
It's not a CISC vs. RISC thing, Atom processors are really, really basic x86 (CISC) parts and aren't very good at handling things like video encoding/transcoding.

Interesting use of the WD box, I'm curious if it could be made to work with AC units.

Did you get your Ouya via Kickstarter? Been reading some of the feedback and it's not very positive. Nice interaction with XBMC though. Some more recent NAS models from QNAP and Asustor supports XMBC and have HDMI output, maybe your next upgrade  ;)
Title: Re: Does the Almond need a UPS
Post by: Pestus on February 12, 2014, 11:25:20 pm
Quote
It's not a CISC vs. RISC thing, Atom processors are really, really basic x86 (CISC) parts and aren't very good at handling things like video encoding/transcoding.

Orlly!  Isn't that interesting.  ARM processors are RISC though right?  Maybe I need to go back to school :)

Quote
Interesting use of the WD box, I'm curious if it could be made to work with AC units.

AC?  Please define.

Quote
Did you get your Ouya via Kickstarter? Been reading some of the feedback and it's not very positive. Nice interaction with XBMC though. Some more recent NAS models from QNAP and Asustor supports XMBC and have HDMI output, maybe your next upgrade  ;)

I did indeed.  It's basic interface blows, but it does achieve what it's meant to do.  Some of the games are fun, but I haven't had time to explore most of it.  I really think it shines as perhaps the best emulator I've ever seen.  The controller is adequate, and for $100 I wouldn't complain.  It doesn't have Google Play integration, however.

If you put Nova Launcher, and use something like AirDroid to sideload APKs, you can do very interesting things.  It's got a Tegra3 processor, which is a hefty ARM processor more commonly seen in tablets.  In a sense, it makes a better media player than most of the god awful Android media players out there, because unlike most, it's got enough flops to pull off high quality with no skipping.  Netflix is annoying as it's a matter of finding the right client to sideload, but XBMC works better on this than it does on my windows gaming PC somehow.

I've seen QNAP's NAS with the HDMI out.  I am very impressed with what they did.  It's fantastically powerful, with diverse software offerings.  The thing is, I treat NAS systems as a bit of a utility.  It usually sits in the basement with the UPS, the LAN hardware, and the like.  Having to locate the QNAP at the TV can defeat some of the advantages.   I did do one odd job for someone once, where I used Monoprice dongles to bridge 2 Cat6 lines to HDMI at either end.  I suppose I could do that in this situation as well if someone wanted to use their NAS this way.  I benefit from being in a country where everyone has a basement :)
Title: Re: Does the Almond need a UPS
Post by: LGNilsson on February 13, 2014, 01:03:59 am
The Synology DS411+ has an Atom D510 processor, not an ARM based processor. See http://forum.synology.com/wiki/index.php/What_kind_of_CPU_does_my_NAS_have for details.
ARM processors are indeed RISC based, but ARM processors are usually a System on a Chip (SoC) and they tend to have dedicated video decoder/encoder/transcoder offload engines that deals with video related tasks. If they lack these, they can usually not be used for any kind of video related processing, as they're simply too under powered to handle video related tasks.
This is what Intel has done with some of the Atom CE5300 parts as well, as this frees up the Atom cores to do other tasks. It seems to be the Atom CE5335 as far as NAS devices are concerned, but it does require some additional drivers and software to be able to do the video transcoding on the fly.

Sorry, I wasn't clear here, Air Conditioning units. The ones sold in Asia at least, in general come with an IR remote that's used to control the temperature.

The Tegra 3 isn't a bad chip, but I don't think it's enough for a "console" that's supposed to play games on a 1080p display.

QNAP has a lot of different models, some of them are more suitable than others for media playback, I'd steer clear of the Atom D2xx0 models for that stuff, as the drivers are bad. The Celeron and Core i models are fine though, but not cheap. Patrick has a Core i3 model that's apparently quite a capable media player.

HDMI over Ethernet is pretty interesting, how well does it work? I meant to install something like that for a mate, but we couldn't get hold of the hardware easily locally at that point in time, so it was never done. 
Title: Re: Does the Almond need a UPS
Post by: Pestus on February 13, 2014, 06:44:55 am
Quote
The Synology DS411+ has an Atom D510 processor, not an ARM based processor. See http://forum.synology.com/wiki/index.php/What_kind_of_CPU_does_my_NAS_have for details.
ARM processors are indeed RISC based, but ARM processors are usually a System on a Chip (SoC) and they tend to have dedicated video decoder/encoder/transcoder offload engines that deals with video related tasks. If they lack these, they can usually not be used for any kind of video related processing, as they're simply too under powered to handle video related tasks.
This is what Intel has done with some of the Atom CE5300 parts as well, as this frees up the Atom cores to do other tasks. It seems to be the Atom CE5335 as far as NAS devices are concerned, but it does require some additional drivers and software to be able to do the video transcoding on the fly.

I'm beginning to understand.  I see now why Synology just flatly said "yes" or "no" on transcoding support on their models.  I had thought that some models just might not be strong enough to keep up, is all.  This makes more sense.

Quote
Sorry, I wasn't clear here, Air Conditioning units. The ones sold in Asia at least, in general come with an IR remote that's used to control the temperature.

Oh yeah it should work, if you're talking about the Global Caché unit.  Like any good universal remote control, it has a learn function that ought to let you configure your own codes.  It's awkward but it works. Then any software or hardware on your LAN ought to be able to interpret it when properly configured.  If you then had a temperature sensor with an electronic output, you could probably create a thermostat function if combined with a home automation gateway.

http://www.globalcache.com/products/itach/models2/
http://www.smarthome.com/65456/Everspring-ST814-Z-Wave-Temperature-Humidity-Sensor/p.aspx

Quote
The Tegra 3 isn't a bad chip, but I don't think it's enough for a "console" that's supposed to play games on a 1080p display.

I don't think they ever intended to compete with the big boys.  No AAA titles here.  It was meant as a platform for indie games, and it's a good choice for that.  For media tasks, it's stellar assuming you can hobble together workable software for the awful OS.

Quote
HDMI over Ethernet is pretty interesting, how well does it work? I meant to install something like that for a mate, but we couldn't get hold of the hardware easily locally at that point in time, so it was never done.

This works very well.  Quite seamless.  Frankly I've never seen any Monoprice product that didn't work exactly as advertised, and very well at that.

http://www.monoprice.com/Product/?c_id=109&cp_id=10110&cs_id=1011012&p_id=8121&seq=1&format=3#specification
Title: Re: Does the Almond need a UPS
Post by: LGNilsson on February 13, 2014, 09:23:12 pm
Right, I misread with regards to the IR stuff and yes, I've seen those, they're not cheap though.

We've just placed an order with Everspring to make sure we fully support all of their sensors and devices.

I guess we're way off topic by now though  :P
Title: Re: Does the Almond need a UPS
Post by: LGNilsson on February 13, 2014, 11:04:51 pm
On topic, I'm powering an Almond on my desk of a 5200mAh battery pack that's normally used for charging mobile devices.
It's technically doing the work of a UPS and is a lot cheaper  :P
Title: Re: Does the Almond need a UPS
Post by: Pestus on February 14, 2014, 06:23:36 am
That's my purpose here.  To hijack threads and transform them!

Back on topic;  The design of the Almond+ is such that it's meant to be wall mountable.  I'm not certain where people are going to opt to put them, but it stands to reason fishing cables is going to be a necessity.  I intend to back this up with a UPS, generally in the basement. How long is the AC adapter that is included?  Most manufacturers loathe the idea of people snipping their power cables and running a length of wire.  Some manufacturers give little connectors that support doing that.  How is this going to work here?

Thanks!
Title: Re: Does the Almond need a UPS
Post by: LGNilsson on February 14, 2014, 10:54:27 am
The Almond+ power adapter will have a 1.8m cable.
I'll discuss the option of providing just the connector with a wire at the other end as an "accessory".
We'll be supplying a 12V 2.5A power adapter, this is a worst case scenario as far as the calculated power usage goes and would include two bus powered USB hard drives.
We do have a wide range power input though, I think it's possible to go up to 21V or maybe even 24V, but I'll double check that with the engineering team.
We were looking at doing a 19V adapter, but they become both bulky and expensive, but as we have a wide range input, it does at least mean that a different power adapter can be used.
If I remember right, the "plug" itself is somewhat unusual as it's 12.5mm long which is apparently not that common.
Title: Re: Does the Almond need a UPS
Post by: Pestus on February 14, 2014, 06:36:41 pm
Interesting.

Just to put it out there, most traditional alarm systems have a DC output of 12V, with a maximum load of 750mA.  Most don't come close to this amperage, so it can often be purposed for more exotic things.  This by the way, would mean that a UPS would not be needed, for anyone with an extensive network.  The alarm system incorporates surge protection and battery backup.
Title: Re: Does the Almond need a UPS
Post by: pete on February 15, 2014, 04:57:11 pm
Yup here utilize Leviton HAI OPII panels.  That said also a subpanel for touchscreens.  Both are backed up with 12VDC "storage batteries".

I have been utilizing the 12VDC power source from the panel for little things and its worked fine for a few years.

I do though back up the POE switches with "regular USP's".  Lately been playing with TP-Link POE power injectors with multiple DC voltage outputs and mostly using the 5VDC outputs for tabletop touchscreens and the 12VDC outputs for POE installed IP cameras.  No issues to date right now.

One thing that I have been playing with and it is bugging me is the "scrambling" of an SD card in the Raspberry Pi when it loses power.

It is a bit irritating.
Title: Re: Does the Almond need a UPS
Post by: pete on February 15, 2014, 04:59:31 pm
Lars,

Is the Almond + power connector a 2.0mm or 2.2mm or 2.5mm barrel connector?

Thinking the default is some 2.2mm; but forgot now...
Title: Re: Does the Almond need a UPS
Post by: LGNilsson on February 15, 2014, 11:59:38 pm
I think it's 2.5mm, but I'll have to check in the office tomorrow.
Title: Re: Does the Almond need a UPS
Post by: Pestus on February 16, 2014, 01:06:47 am
HAI looks like an alarm panel on steroids.  I've never worked with it, but it has all the similarities to a UL/ULC rated security device.  Very expensive, too, from what it looks like.  Seems HA has been pretty pro for a long time, and I have to respect that engineering.   DC 12V output appears to be the standard for this class of hardware and should be considered the default for anyone looking to tie in to traditional systems.  Given that a vast majority of currently existing sensor networks work this way, it would be a natural choice.

PoE is stellar.  I love that technology.  I've run WiFi access points into the rafters of buildings using PoE, knowing that they are so low maintenance.  Likewise, security cameras work this way, and doing power and signal over a single Cat5e/RJ45 makes install logistics trivial.

The Almond+ is consumer level hardware, however.  It's meant to appeal to end users in an affordable manner.  That usually means a dead simple AC/DC adapter with a usual form of cylindrical plug.  It's understandable why that approach would be taken.   Unfortunately that runs counter to a wall mount philosophy.  Architectural differences country by country are drastic enough that unless the cable for that AC/DC adapter is 20 feet long, it will fail as a wall mountable device.  Then either it's going to sit on a desk or table, or it will end up near the other LAN hardware, having it's touchscreen unused. 

It would be better to either incorporate a PoE capable WAN port, or a terminal input for an AC or DC circuit, or perhaps allow either, with a DIP switch to select which mode you prefer.  I've heard auto sensing circuits are getting cheaper too.

All of this may be moot however.  Isn't the Almond+ already in production phase?  Talking about changing the hardware at this point should almost be out of the question... shouldn't it?

Title: Re: Does the Almond need a UPS
Post by: LGNilsson on February 16, 2014, 02:55:17 am
Something like this should work

(http://www.adafruit.com/images/medium/poecable_MED.jpg)

And yes, sadly is way too late to make any changes like that at this point in time. Even if we wanted to, we don't have the space on the PCB for it.
Title: Re: Does the Almond need a UPS
Post by: pete on February 16, 2014, 07:50:42 am
Quote
The Almond+ is consumer level hardware, however.  It's meant to appeal to end users in an affordable manner.  That usually means a dead simple AC/DC adapter with a usual form of cylindrical plug.  It's understandable why that approach would be taken.   Unfortunately that runs counter to a wall mount philosophy.  Architectural differences country by country are drastic enough that unless the cable for that AC/DC adapter is 20 feet long, it will fail as a wall mountable device.  Then either it's going to sit on a desk or table, or it will end up near the other LAN hardware, having it's touchscreen unused.

Yup here utilize patch panels and switches in the communications "closet" area of the home.  This is where all LV wires are home run.

The Leviton HAI panel 12VDC (which is backed up) goes everywhere in the house such that I can utilize this power or POE power redundancy for the Almond +.

I utilize a PFSense firewall with multiple WAN / LAN connections.

The Almond + will most likely sit on an end table with one network cable to it or maybe in a wall doing the below stuff.  The WAN connectivity to test will be one LAN connection to the PFSense firewall providing an autonomous wireless LAN.

Yup; here keeping the POE to standards and the TP-Link multivoltage injector has done well.  Prior to this used single voltage Injectors from Tycon.  I do currently also use a number of midstream POE injectors from Tycon.  Largest one is a 24 port managed midstream injector.

It is working today for me for the Leviton HAI Omnitouch touchscreens, tabletop mini touchscreen tablets and IP cameras.

I have another subsystem for a number of legacy connected via serial touchscreens.  These do stay up over an hour connected to their subpanel.

These are very robust and made for outdoor AP's (Ubiquti is favorite here).

I have here too extended low voltage stuff by just using 18/2 or 16/6 to regular to keystone wall plates - but this way would just provide you with an RJ-45 network and a LV jack plate.  If you wanted to mount the Almond + inwall you could take everything inside the wall as it is only low voltage.

(http://ep.yimg.com/ca/I/amamax_2268_516916677)

I then utilize a Keystone blank F-Type insert with a standard LV barrel connector to extend the LV connection.  I do solder the wires to the connector. 

(http://images.monoprice.com/productmediumimages/65591.jpg)

(http://www.allelectronics.com/mas_assets/cache/image/4/d/3/150x150-1235.Jpg)

You can also fit a TP-Link POE injector in the wall box and run the cables to the Keystone wall plate.

(http://www.safenet.com/images/TL-POE150S-01.jpg)

Title: Re: Does the Almond need a UPS
Post by: Pestus on February 16, 2014, 09:32:32 am
Lars,

What is that exactly?   It looks like it might fit the bill!

Pete,

You are my kind of geek!  I do similar things for similar reasons.  Although the inserts I work with don't require soldering, the rest of it I understand and employ semi regularly.  So much nicer than an ugly wire coming out of a hole in the wall!

Injectors are nice, but I ended up just getting myself a nice PoE switch.  A bit more cost effective than a bunch of PoE injectors.  Also only one power transformer rather than a bunch makes it easier.  I'm beginning to think that when costs come down on PoE, that almost every manufacturer should use this spec.  Hardware can be placed anywhere, and the proliferation of power bars can end.

Ubiquity make excellent products.  No argument there!

How is HAI?  Had I got into home automation a few years earlier, I probably would have gone with HAI.  It seems like the best of the traditional systems.  A colleague of mine wanted me to go for a training course for Control4, but it's so high end that only very wealthy people would bother.  Same goes for Crestron etc.  Even HAI looks a bit unapproachable to middle income people.   Now that cheaper controllers exist, it gets easier to do fancy lighting systems or lock control etc for people.
Title: Re: Does the Almond need a UPS
Post by: LGNilsson on February 16, 2014, 10:34:41 am
Very low cost PoE adapter, one part each end of the Ethernet cable that goes to the device that should be powered. Power in one end, power out the other.
Title: Re: Does the Almond need a UPS
Post by: pete on February 16, 2014, 12:52:13 pm
Yup.

This is a custom any voltage power injector.  It is a custom means to inject power into a catXX cable.
It works but doesn't really take into account DC/AC voltage drops across long cables and the 22 guage diameter of one wire inside of the CatXX cable.

(http://www.adafruit.com/images/medium/poecable_MED.jpg)

The TP-Link power splitter utilizes a standard POE voltage and converts it to another DC voltage.  That said I am using standard POE switches and Tycon POE midstream injectors (different but similiar to a POE switch).

(http://www.safenet.com/images/TL-POE150S-01.jpg)

In summary though there are a bunch of ways to provide redundant power to the Almond + while concurrently integrating it to your home network such that you do not have to plug the little AC adapter into a UPS.

I have recently here migrated to using managed Gb 24 port switches for now most of the network.  I am familiar with using Cisco and historically always have for commercial stuff.  For home though found this device to work just fine.

I am too now adding 24 port POE switches to the mixture of smaller POE switches and my Tycon midstream injectors.

Currently in place is some 15 touch screens which are utilizing network POE connections.  These have been working fine now for over a year in this manner.
Title: Re: Does the Almond need a UPS
Post by: pete on February 16, 2014, 01:15:34 pm
Quote
How is HAI?

I've used HAI since the early 2000's for my combo security and automation panel.  I have no complaints.

Today HAI is owned by Leviton

Yup; Creston and Control4 are proprietary and said only installed and supported by same said dealers.

HAI started doing automation stuff / security stuff in the 1980's.  In the 1990's there was more of an emphasis on security with added automation to their panels. 

The Elk panel which is similiar to the HAI panel started mostly relating to security/alarm stuff; Moose; thinking in the 80's-90's.

While today using an HAI panel I also utilize software called Homeseer. 

I do have some 20-30 analog to digital devices plugged in to it doing all sorts of stuff; automation stuff (but not scheduling lights and so forth). 

I do not consider base lighting control, HVAC, lawn sprinkling stuff automation these days but rather just maintenance of the heartbeat of the home if that makes sense?

Today we now have means of low cost automation and security and we are now going into that whole DIY of security and automation.

There are though many not wanting to install switches and thermostats these days and would prefer to purchase automation / security by the month which is also happening. 

Most of this though relating to being able to remote control a home via the cell phone widgets or managing the home via cloud based software.

Yup here started with X10 automation in the late 1970's and did remote via telephone a home a few thousand miles away from Chicago.

Title: Re: Does the Almond need a UPS
Post by: Pestus on February 16, 2014, 10:14:46 pm
Impressive.  Later in life when I have a larger home, I'll probably have a set up like that.

As it stands, I own a small condo.  Livable enough, with a few conveniences I find interesting.  Lighting, HVAC, Sound, Locks, Cameras, Alarm, and TV tied together using Micasaverde.  It's not at all anywhere near HAI in terms of design standards, but it's good enough and is actually affordable.  I have each of these systems reacting to one another as suits us.  The other interesting thing is that the open community is fantastically active.  People writing plugins for every possible thing.  I'm hoping to see this community thrive in a similar way!

Thanks for the suggestions regarding power.  I'll probably end up using the custom power arrangement.  It seems very well suited to simple extensions in a wall.
Title: Re: Does the Almond need a UPS
Post by: LGNilsson on February 17, 2014, 12:09:50 am
I was way off, the power connector for the Almond+ is 5.5mm in diameter and 12.5mm in length.
Title: Re: Does the Almond need a UPS
Post by: pete on February 17, 2014, 10:28:48 am
I never looked at the Almond power connector.  It looks to be the 2.X mm size plug.  5.5 mm diameter plug is huge. 

Can't be that big eh Lars?
Title: Re: Does the Almond need a UPS
Post by: pete on February 17, 2014, 10:38:53 am
Pestus,

In the 1970's I was renting a 4 bedroom home while I was in school.  I didn't live in the house some 30% of the time; going home during school breaks.  I had read about the X10 stuff and decided to give it a try.  Back then also used this Heathkit box which had a "status" reporting voice and I could turn things on and off remotely with it.

It was very low on the WAF when I started to take things apart in the house we were renting.  Tinkering offered me a break from studying.

But always "tinkered". 
Title: Re: Does the Almond need a UPS
Post by: LGNilsson on February 17, 2014, 11:11:21 am
I never looked at the Almond power connector.  It looks to be the 2.X mm size plug.  5.5 mm diameter plug is huge. 

Can't be that big eh Lars?

Yes, the Almond is 5.5mm in diameter too, but it's not as long and of course only 5V.
Title: Re: Does the Almond need a UPS
Post by: pete on February 17, 2014, 04:41:39 pm
Yup that's it.  Its the outer versus the inner diameter of the barrel connector.  That is where I was confused.  Apologies Lars.

(http://www.allelectronics.com/mas_assets/cache/image/3/0/5/a/12378.Jpg)

Quote
Black SPT-1 zip cord. 18 ga. Molded strain relief on one end. Molded coax power plug, 2.1mm id x 5.5mm o.d. x 10mm long.
Title: Re: Does the Almond need a UPS
Post by: eldaria on February 18, 2014, 04:25:49 am
So how would one do this easiest?

Charger connected in parallel to batteries that are connected to the Almond+? (Online UPS)
But a good charger turns off or change to trickle charge when the batteries are full, so it might not detect it if the almond is also drawing power so it will either continuously charge the batteries (not that good) or turn off and the battery will start draining (Better but still not good).
An ideal solution would be that the batteries are offline and trickle charged, and in case of power fail they take over, but that would mean more advanced circuitry, or in case of this low draw it could probably be done rather easy and then use a capacitor to provide power during the failover.

Anyone have a good diagram of a breadboard circuit one could build for this for example for using LiPo or standard GP ReCyko batteries?
Title: Re: Does the Almond need a UPS
Post by: pete on February 18, 2014, 01:26:20 pm
For those into tinkering I think it'll be easy. 

That said there will probably be an off the shelf product coming soon for those not into the tinkering thing.

Personally a side hobby here has been carpc's since the late 1990's. 

That said though I did have a remote control starter for my new 1983 S-10 Blazer.  It was mostly mechanical with a remote the size of a small walkie talkie.

One of my early issues using a Via Epia Motherboard was power such that I ran the CarPC off a battery on a tank circuit.  Today the two carpc's are running on little Intel Atom computers that draw little power.  I've tapped into the bus of the two automobiles and can remote stuff easily.  IE: starting the vehicle, turning lights on or off, opening and closing windows type stuff and much more.

What is really neat these days is that the newest picoPSU's have built in battery charging circuits.

But its really still a bit too big. (in a relative sense cuz its small anyways).

(http://www.mini-box.com/core/media/media.nl?id=21158&c=ACCT127230&h=bcb5e235e035ec478342)

Just a few days ago on another forum someone mentioned this little circuit board which is smaller than the above board.

(http://regmedia.co.uk/2014/01/28/mopi_1.jpg)

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/02/05/mopi_smart_battery_power_for_raspberry_pi/ (http://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/02/05/mopi_smart_battery_power_for_raspberry_pi/)

It wouldn't be too difficult to make a little box with batteries and a charging circuit for the Almond + for that DIYer person.

For that tinkering person you can just purchase a tiny POE board to supply voltage to the Almond +.  The boards keep getting smaller.  This one is only $13 USD.  Personally I would like to see one the size of two Ethernet ports (guessing that they do exist today)

(http://www.mouser.com/images/olimexltd/lrg/MOD-POE-1.jpg?wax-srv=vuT3hDzvSnixTdmaaDCyjA60)
Title: Re: Does the Almond need a UPS
Post by: eldaria on February 19, 2014, 03:18:15 am
Hi Pete,

Awesome!

The picoUPS is probably the easier way, with the downside of being for Lead Acid Batteries. They are usually bulky, but can provide plenty of power.
The size of the picoUPS is less relevant as you could have it together with the battery that is already quite bulky and then only have the power cable to the Almond+.

The other one, MoPi is apparently a Kickstarter project, and in it self very interesting, I think I will pledge for that one although it is only 5V so will not be enough for the Almond+ but could be fun for other projects.

For me i think the POE is probably the best solution since I already have a UPS in my home I could run the ethernet cable to the Almond+ since the Ethernet is needed there anyway.
 
Title: Re: Does the Almond need a UPS
Post by: pete on February 19, 2014, 04:13:03 pm
Quote
For me i think the POE is probably the best solution

Same here. 

Much of the cat5e I put in some 10 years ago using a simple LED RF-45 checker.  I did get one of those network checkers that tells about the pairs and distance of cable.  I found a few errors in my first runs while switching over to POE.  The tool worked great.  It was very reasonably priced.  My issue here is distinguishing the colors on the either the patch panel side or the wall plate side and not utilizing enough light when punching down the cables.

This was the original one.  I mean it shows the the wiring pairs OK but not much else.

(http://thumbs2.ebaystatic.com/d/l225/m/m6FmkgF1c6nc5hRPCNxY8eA.jpg)

The updated tester looks like this:

(http://www.openeye.net/wp-content/uploads/CA-D4000.png)
Title: Re: Does the Almond need a UPS
Post by: h3lix on June 20, 2014, 06:18:17 pm
If the almond has the same 12V connector as every other computer device out there, the Belkin UPS used for Uverse gateways will work great. I have probably 7 or so powering my cable modem, ethernet switch, couple wireless points, NAS devices, and even a computer monitor.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Belkin-Rg-Ups-For-At-T-Uverse-Installation-/151327481760?pt=US_Uninterruptible_Power_Supplies&hash=item233bd21fa0

A whole lot of these are going for $1 each on eBay. Batteries are cheap, too, and keep my routers up and running for a few hours. (MUCH better than an AC UPS!)

Will post as soon as I get my Almond+ to know if the plug fits.