Securifi Community Forum
Securifi Products => Almond+ => Topic started by: babcocca on July 15, 2014, 07:35:40 am
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I hope that this post will be allowed to stay in spite of the forum rules to provide a place for users to rant.
Securifi should have tried for a awesome do it all Smart Hub for all kinds of different sensors and left it at that.
They did a TERRIBLE job at the entire router side.
Everything about it is awful. There isn't one function that one would expect from a $10 Chinese router that isn't f'd up. Oh, it got DHCP from my cable modem. Yay. Everything else is f'd up.
I will go on but will wait to see if this thread lives.
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Rants are fine, but it's more useful to post a bit information so we can start to try to solve the problems you're having.
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I would just like to say that I also agree that the router's functionality is very limited. HOWEVER, I believe that the software just needs to be worked on. Securifi knows this and promises firmware updates in the near future with features added. The OpenWRT panel in the Admin section does provided some more features in the mean time.
I expected this some as I believe this: Securifi sent out the routers as soon as the hardware was complete, all major bugs were fixed, and all needed and basic functionality was working. This way backers could get their routers as soon as possible and start using them, instead of making us wait another month or two. More features are coming, we just have to be patient. The product is not even available to the general public yet, so it should be treated as the software is still in Beta
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Securifi should have tried for a awesome do it all Smart Hub for all kinds of different sensors and left it at that.
No this is not what was in the Kickstarter and not what we pledged for.
They did a TERRIBLE job at the entire router side.
Everything about it is awful. There isn't one function that one would expect from a $10 Chinese router that isn't f'd up. Oh, it got DHCP from my cable modem. Yay. Everything else is f'd up.
I will go on but will wait to see if this thread lives.
I have to say I do not agree with you, I had the developement router for some time now, and although it is still lacking quite a few features on the software side, this is a kick a*s router with way more horsepowers than anything you can get on the market.
And software is changeable, and you getting the hardware and the software that came with it is not the end, but a start of something.
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No this is not what was in the Kickstarter and not what we pledged for.
I have to say I do not agree with you, I had the developement router for some time now, and although it is still lacking quite a few features on the software side, this is a kick a*s router with way more horsepowers than anything you can get on the market.
And software is changeable, and you getting the hardware and the software that came with it is not the end, but a start of something.
Disagree all you like however, there's a problem here: the Almond+ is built on the same NutsOS as the Almond router which came out 2-3 years ago. That means Securifi already has a few years' worth of development in this router OS. And frankly, it's appalling. It's built on top of OpenWRT, NutsOS is really just their fancy UI for it with their own automation stuff shoehorned in. There are HUGE feature disparities between NutsOS and OpenWRT, which means sometimes you have to log into OpenWRT directly to make certain changes that should be doable through NutsOS. Why should people be angry about this? Securifi had 14+ months to get the software right for this router -- and let's be honest, it's just an upgrade of their existing firmware -- and they still screwed it up. There should be zero feature disparities between the two, I was even notified by Securifi support directly that new features will be added in 6 months to a year out. Features that should already be there could take up to a year to implement.
I've run dd-wrt for almost 8 years and it was never as daunting to find things as NutsOS is. I have a decade's worth of experience in networking and never have I found a product more confusing to use. Some features just don't work. Most features have zero explanation as to what they do. Even the support guy told me he found OpenWRT daunting and confusing to use. If your own support team says that, it doesn't bode well for the product that I waited over 14 months to get, even with all the delays.
The whole Almond+ team appears to have not prepared for launch whatsoever. There was no Almond+ forum group prior to release day, the wiki pages for the Plus are nothing more than a quick start guide and explains almost nothing about the "advanced" features of NutsOS, there's no real manual for this thing. They seriously dropped the ball on a product they've been producing and delaying for so long.
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I don't even have mine yet and I'm frustrated. I don't see how with the ridiculous delays they still don't have all the home automation stuff done. I mean - they had YEARS to work on it. They are still working on the scheduling and the API is like 6 months to a year away... I don't even understand the point of shipping it if all the software isn't done. You would have figured at least the router part would have been rock solid.
I don't think the Securifi team understood how a beta program is supposed to work. I mean basically at this point everyone is a beta tester. I'm not sure what the point of paying extra to be a beta tester was in their mind. Sad.
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Well, I stand by what I said, OpenWRT is not as user friendly as DD-WRT and some features can be confusing, I've used both. Sadly, DD-WRT is not an option for as our chipset partner only supports OpenWRT as the core OS. Technically speaking, we could've removed any user access to OpenWRT and just given you NutsOS, but we know many like to tinker around with more advanced settings, so we left it all in place, for better or worse.
OpenWRT/LuCI is provided as is and we're not planning on developing anything for it, but that doesn't mean those interested can't do so.
The Almond+ is NOT build on the same NutsOS as the Almond. The Almond is MIPS based and runs a very different Linux platform.
Yes, we can port some of the features over and much of it should've been done already. However, we've run into a lot of unexpected issues with the Almond+ platform that has taken up valuable resources from our software team which has lead to them fixing bugs that shouldn't be bugs, instead of spending time developing the features of the Almond+.
Does this mean that we're going to leave the Almond+ as it and forget about it? Hardly. We have a new firmware coming in a little over a week now that will bring the first set of features that should've been there from day one to the Almond+ and we're going to continue to work on it until most of you are happy, since we're unlike to be able to please everyone.
It's easy to make assumptions when you're not involved in product development. We're a comparatively small company with limited resources, we're not D-Link, Netgear or Asus.
As for the beta test and not knowing how to do it, well, we offered beta units, we shipped beta units and had very little feedback, so sadly there was only so much that could be done here in terms of getting additional feedback.
As for the forums, there has been an Almond+ forum for several months, you just had to create an account to see it and this is why we asked everyone months ago to create accounts.
Yes, the Wiki is still a work in progress and will be so for the remainder of the life of the product. Considering I'm pretty much the only one contributing content to the Wiki (again, small team, limited resources), besides doing a lot of other things, I don't have unlimited time to write documentation.
Yes, Almond+ doesn't live up to everyone's expectations, in fact, in its current state, it doesn't live up to my expectations. However, I know that given a bit of time, it will.
Disagree all you like however, there's a problem here: the Almond+ is built on the same NutsOS as the Almond router which came out 2-3 years ago. That means Securifi already has a few years' worth of development in this router OS. And frankly, it's appalling. It's built on top of OpenWRT, NutsOS is really just their fancy UI for it with their own automation stuff shoehorned in. There are HUGE feature disparities between NutsOS and OpenWRT, which means sometimes you have to log into OpenWRT directly to make certain changes that should be doable through NutsOS. Why should people be angry about this? Securifi had 14+ months to get the software right for this router -- and let's be honest, it's just an upgrade of their existing firmware -- and they still screwed it up. There should be zero feature disparities between the two, I was even notified by Securifi support directly that new features will be added in 6 months to a year out. Features that should already be there could take up to a year to implement.
I've run dd-wrt for almost 8 years and it was never as daunting to find things as NutsOS is. I have a decade's worth of experience in networking and never have I found a product more confusing to use. Some features just don't work. Most features have zero explanation as to what they do. Even the support guy told me he found OpenWRT daunting and confusing to use. If your own support team says that, it doesn't bode well for the product that I waited over 14 months to get, even with all the delays.
The whole Almond+ team appears to have not prepared for launch whatsoever. There was no Almond+ forum group prior to release day, the wiki pages for the Plus are nothing more than a quick start guide and explains almost nothing about the "advanced" features of NutsOS, there's no real manual for this thing. They seriously dropped the ball on a product they've been producing and delaying for so long.
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Honestly guys, you backed a Kickstarter project.
Kickstarter is to get early access and to provide support to a new product that you believe in. And should be money that you are prepared to loose.
Compare Kickstarter to Gambling and you get the idea.
Yes the product was delayed, but this was not due to software, but due to hardware. And when you get new hardware that has a completely different architecture then you need to make new software.
When the Kickstarter was launched they had an almost finished product. What we saw during the campaign was a restart and the creation of a complete new product. And to get that far on such a short time is actually amazing.
Right now you have an early version of a product and it would be a whole lot more effective if you gave constructive feedback on what does not work as you expect and what you would like to see, and then don't expect it to be there the next day.
If they had the resources to do full in-house testing, advanced and rapid software development, then they would not have come to Kickstarter for funding would they?
Clearly Securifi know how to make good routers, as they have the highest rated router on Amazon and has kept that rating for a long time even though new competing products have come to market since it was released.
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Haters gonna hate. For just a $100 and a little patience, I'm thrilled.
Thank you, securifi.
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Completely agree with nonaitall.
The unit isn't even oficially released yet. The support in this forum is outstanding and I believe securifi is working on the software as we speak. I am too frustrated with the unreliable WiFi performace and my nas drive dropouts but hey, this is all software and can be fixed.
Flo
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Thanks guys - more than happy to be on the leading edge! You have a really cool product and look forward to see where it goes! When I go with a Kickstarter project I fully expect to see Version 1.0 and you have a pretty impressive start - keep up the good work! :)
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This is my problem. I went from the pinnacle of router code: http://code.google.com/p/rt-n56u
To this....
There are a couple of email links on that page. Those folks know how to use a router to its best capabilities.
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So I send Lars a question....
Quote from: babcocca on Today at 06:16:10 AM
Lars,
I cannot connect to RDP on my internal network using the standard port of 3389. I looked at the firewall rules and they are blank. What gives?
Charles
and get this reply....
Can you have look in the OpenWRT UI, it would seem that the implementation in NutsOS is severely missing at this point.
I know you're annoyed by all the issues and I'll be the first to admit that things are far from ideal at the moment, but we are working on fixing things.
However, I do also want to point out that we never set out to create a router for hackers, we set out to create something that would be easy to use.
This might've lead to some oversights as to what features are important and we seemingly have missed our target audience a little bit and we'll be working on correcting all of these software issues.
That leads me to say the following..
Dear Securifi,
Who did you think you were creating a router for??? Ma and Pa Kettle are not using sensors. For now, this is a router for the hard core. Its great to shoot for making it have a friendly interface but there are basics to achieve.
I am not being a jerk here. Really and truly, the router implementation is not acceptable. It sucks and sucks badly.
I have to unplug my Almond+ and go back to my n56. I will copy this post and put it in my public rant.
Please send me an email when you think you have something that might perform minimum tasking. Router functions FIRST, make the addons work later. Torrent, FTP, etc etc
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You know, if you are really a "hacker" or advanced user, then you will open up an ssh session to the router and configure it from there.
Just because it is not in the GUI does not mean it can't be done.
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;D
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Hi,
Although i haven't yet received my router this does concern me. When we were receiving emails about extended functionality such as mounting usb3 drives and FTP i assumed they were added because the base/advanced router functionality, had already been completed? I'm glad i have seen this thread though, because else i would have expected the router (via NutsOS) to be as configurable, if not more so, than its competitors. If this is not the case, as securifi have already misjudged what people want from this device (by your own admission, from babcocca's post:
"This might've lead to some oversights as to what features are important and we seemingly have missed our target audience a little bit and we'll be working on correcting all of these software issues.")
then perhaps we should be made aware of what you are now planning to do with upcoming releases so that we can have an input. I hope that a great deal of the current development will be contributing towards developing the software that allows the user to configure the router, without having to use the OpenWRT. Personally, i have lost a but of confidence in the direction of this product so here's to hoping you can put my mind at rest.
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A lot of things have changed since then and we're working hard on fixing everything. We've released a couple of beta versions to the beta/dev backers to make sure the new firmware is doing what it should do and we've found issues with their help that we're working on fixing. The web UI isn't really needed for most of the standard features of the Almond+ by the time that the next firmware is released, which I hope will be this week. That said, we've gotten the message loud and clear that there's very much a demand for a vastly improved web UI and we're working on that too, it'll just take a little bit longer to get there.
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Hello all!
So I plug in the Almond and set it up. Update to R066. The RDP connection on tlhe local lan is still present.
I sent a message to Lars and eldaria to see if a solution could be found.
Its been MONTHS. I am still disappointed.
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Hello all!
So I plug in the Almond and set it up. Update to R066. The RDP connection on tlhe local lan is still present.
I sent a message to Lars and eldaria to see if a solution could be found.
Its been MONTHS. I am still disappointed.
I do not answer questions that come in a PM.
If you have something not working please make a forum post so that others can benefit.
The RDP issue is mentioned nowhere else than in this rant post and is not very clearly defined. So of course no one has looked into it.
Also, note that I do not work for Securifi, I'm a backer and I use my Almond+ as my primary router at home now. And yes I do use RDP also.
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I don't feel slighted at all by Securifi. Every question I've posted on the forum has been met with a response. Yes I feel some of the software is lacking features, but performance wise I'm impressed. Before I had a Netgear WNR2000 running DD-WRT configured as an AP, which would shrivel up and die when throwing 40GB+ over wireless. I've never had a problem with the Almond configured as an AP.
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I don't normally post but would like to say that I am impressed with the quality of the product. Some of the more advanced features are not there yet (in software) but this does not diminish the product as these will be added in.
Overall I would back this project again (even with the delays). I don't see another product on the market that can compete let alone at this price.
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I would not complain until they launch their product out to the general public... It seems logical that if they haven't yet it's because it's not yet 100% ready, and you can't really judge something that is not fully ready yet, until it is.. Then it's another story.
Like others said I think that we are lucky to have gotten the device before anyone else and without more delays. I am sure that it will be awesome very soon as it gets updated.
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I really feel mislead and taken by the whole kickstarter campaign, first they were directly comparing it to how much better it will be then the vera 3 on the kickstarter page. HA! the Vera 3 has its problems but, it is 100 X better then the Almond +. The Almond + can't even do basic automation of turning on a light via a schedule, sure, they say its coming soon. Also they have no plans for email notifications, only push notifications, even the most basic webcam can do email notifications.
Second, as a router it stinks, my wireless locks up and stops working every other day. My 5+ year old wrt54g with dd-wrt firmware was / is more reliable. Now with the whole delay of firmware 67 I'm done with it, will be going back to my old router.
Finally, I have lost faith that they can even make this thing work as a router let alone a home automation hub, you know its really bad when they say the bandwidth graphs don't work because of the hardware manufacture, and a user on the message board gets it working that same day, and the fix wasn't included in the following firmwares, OH but it will be in the next firmware!
I know there is a risk with the kickstarter, however I really feel I got nothing like I was promised.
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I don't think I ever said we don't have any plans for email notifications, simply that as of right now, the first thing we're doing is push notifications. We're aware that many of you want email notifications and it's something we'll look at adding, I just don't know when.
I don't think we ever said the Almond+ would be better than the Vera and if it's the table you're referring to, yes, we do have more features than the Vera3, as the Almond+ is a much more recent product which is a higher-end router with additional features that the Vera3 lacks. On the software side they have what, a 5 year lead on us, so I think it's a bit unfair to compare us to them in terms of equality on software features.
Yes, we didn't get the automation done in a timely manner, but we expect to have something ready for you guys to start testing in the next month. Will it be perfect from day one? I highly doubt it, but we have to start somewhere, just like I'm sure Vera did at one point in time.
I'm sorry about the issues you're having with your Almond+ being unstable, that's not at all what we want anyone to experience and I really hope the next couple of firmwares will fix that.
For the graphs, we were told one thing by our chipset partner, but clearly they somehow didn't understand the problem and it turned out wasn't something all that hard to solve, as it was simply a matter of an incorrect MIME type.
I can only agree with you that so far, we haven't delivered what we promised, but it doesn't mean that we've stopped working. Please believe me when I say that I'm as frustrated as you are with some of the problems we're having, but I believe a lot of the issues should be fixed in the next month or so and we'll be adding a lot of functionality over the next 3-6 months, so if you're willing to be a little bit more patient, I think things will come together quite nicely.
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Thanks for the response Lars, I will say you do a great job here keeping everyone informed. I will hang in but, I'm going to box up the Almond and wait and see what happens.
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It is looking like my Almond may go back in the box FOR A SECOND TIME.
At this point, I would like to ship it back and receive a refund. What good is the most processor heavy router available, if the software is seriously delinquent?
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I'll agree here - this product is a significant disappointment. Compared to other products on the market it's generally not good at any one thing. Compared to my Ubiquiti APs the RF performance of the Almond+ is sub-par (roughly 20-30% of the range of a Ubiquiti UniFi AP Pro) and the general support of ZWave compared to my Vera Lite is horrid. No scenes, has problems with more than 20 devices, etc, etc, etc. I backed this project as well and would like my money back - or if someone wants to buy a green unit, by all means I'll sell it to you. Just know, that IMO this thing is a waste of time and money. Securifi shouldn't have tried entering the home control / home automation business. The product is half baked at best.
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Welcome to the forum windexh8er.
Yup; here using Ubiquiti today for one of my AP's. It is a very good product.
I also utilize a Vera controller here.
I am curious what you like about the Vera contoller and Ubiquiti AP.
Here I see the Almond + as a product not ready for release; still building the receipe playing with a variety of stuff based on input and participation from those that participated in the kickstarter.
Tell us what you are looking for relating to what you think the Almond + should be like?
Your input is recognized as participation in the kickstarter.
Keep your Almond + for a bit longer...write about your playing with it some more...tell us ....let it bake some more...
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With all my respect SteveZ, you clearly don't understand what a kickstarter project is. Sometimes it succeed without any glitch witch from my experience account for around 25%, sometimes it completely fails, other time you'll face delays. I don't know if you backed soap router project but I did, i expect a completely fail result in this case but i can be wrong. Another good point with A+ was that they replaced mine that went dead after a couple days at no cost in and out. I'm willing to consider buying your if you want to get rid of it, just let me know the amount you would ask for.
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I guess I must be in the minority, but I love my unit, far better than an Airport I've ever owned. Now, am I ready to rip out the Airport Extreme I have at home for the family and replace it with an Almond+? Not yet, but I don't see it as far off. Save for a couple bricking incidents (all my fault from screwing around with settings and features I had no idea what I was doing with (side note: backups and Google are your friend)) and a touch screen failure (still not sure I didn't cause that), I haven't had an issue with mine that was not my fault. Yes, configuring it to your liking takes time (I think my other posts on here show that) and to be honest, I'm still configuring mine. I turned VPN on the other day to see if it worked. It does, and it took three minutes to set up, drastically less than when I configured VPN in OS X Server. Are LuCI and the touchscreen limited in what they can do? Yes, very much so compared to OpenWRT (otherwise known as the beauty that lives on port 91), but they are insanely helpful for quick things. There's no bloat to them, and I love that. All of the management interfaces I see as functions in code: they're built to do one thing, and one thing well.
And I, for one, think they do.
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I just had my first read through this topic and, I have to say, I should have popped some popcorn first!
There certainly are some rants. To anyone (in the US) who is disappointed, please feel free to get in touch with me. Assuming you haven't thrown it out the window and damaged it, I'll buy your unit for the price you paid plus reasonable shipping. I can already see that I'll want another one of these. Boxing up your unit and trying again later is also a perfectly reasonable response if you don't have the temerity to walk on the cutting edge.
To the folks at Securifi, thank you for your hard work and for the solid hardware foundation upon which we can build. Although it's surely disheartening to hear such vitriolic comments, it should be encouraging that the product has inspired such passion. We all have high expectations; some just seem to have less patience for our eventual arrival in The Future. A few firmware iterations down the road I expect that most of us will be boasting about how we backed this project and knew it when it was "just" a Kickstarter.
Just one specific compliment, small though it may seem: today is the shift in daylight savings time for those of us in the USA and I didn't have to change a thing to have the router pick up the new time correctly. That's as it should be, of course, but it's more than I can say for several other devices in this house that really ought to know better. I know it has caused you some headaches, but thank you for your commitment to OpenWRT and the path of open source.
Now excuse me, please, while I go reset the time on my furnace.
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im disappointed but at least Securifi gave me an option to receive a refund.
I have provided the same information in the forum.
http://forum.securifi.com/index.php/topic,2182.0.html
I have been through this topic with Lars before on whether the Almond+ is still in beta (or not) and clearly we have differing views. Although i signed up for kickstarter, i did not sign up to be a beta tester, much less having to wait for firmware updates for the almond+ to provide functionality which was originally promised.
So guys, credit has to be given to Lars and Securifi for keeping all of us engaged on email/forums/updates. Its fantastic for a company to engage its consumers in such a way. However, the reality is this - if i didn't have to fork up more cash to pay for the shipment to Taipei, i would have returned this a month ago.
I hope u guys find some peace in this tech support forums. if not, just go get your refunds.
Cheers
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I have 2 A+'s and have had 0 issues with them. No overheating (even laying down), and such.. Anything related to the firmware is going to be the same for everyone until they get the bugs ironed out.. the only issue i've even had was one of the power bricks has a buzz to it, and I had a replacement in 2 days. The A+'s themselves have been rock solid.
I guess I must be in the minority, but I love my unit, far better than an Airport I've ever owned. Now, am I ready to rip out the Airport Extreme I have at home for the family and replace it with an Almond+? Not yet, but I don't see it as far off. Save for a couple bricking incidents (all my fault from screwing around with settings and features I had no idea what I was doing with (side note: backups and Google are your friend)) and a touch screen failure (still not sure I didn't cause that), I haven't had an issue with mine that was not my fault. Yes, configuring it to your liking takes time (I think my other posts on here show that) and to be honest, I'm still configuring mine. I turned VPN on the other day to see if it worked. It does, and it took three minutes to set up, drastically less than when I configured VPN in OS X Server. Are LuCI and the touchscreen limited in what they can do? Yes, very much so compared to OpenWRT (otherwise known as the beauty that lives on port 91), but they are insanely helpful for quick things. There's no bloat to them, and I love that. All of the management interfaces I see as functions in code: they're built to do one thing, and one thing well.
And I, for one, think they do.
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I have 2 A+'s and have had 0 issues with them.
I only have one and it has worked great for me.
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We fully understand that after all of the delays, there were certain expectations we didn't meet when it comes to both the software, the stability and what ever else people are having problems with.
That said, it was a matter of us shipping then, or shipping now. I think some of you would've murdered us if we were only starting shipments now.
As mentioned in the firmware thread. this week we're going to release two firmwares.
R067 which includes all the fixes and updates, but not the new Wi-Fi driver
R067 something beta which will include the same fixes and updates, but it'll feature the new Wi-Fi drivers, although it'll be without the range extender as it's still having some issues with the new drivers that we're working in solving.
That said, we decided to release the R067 something beta to everyone due to the fact that it seems to solve 99% of the Wi-Fi issues people are having based on the feedback we've had from those that have tested it.
It's not ideal do have two firmwares, but it is what it is.
R067 will also include support for push notifications, BUT it'll take a little bit of time before this will be available as we have to update both our cloud platform and the mobile apps to support this.
There'll also be initial support for the Philips Hue hub, it pairs very nicely with the Almond+ and at least the regular bulbs that you have connected to the hub automatically appears in the Connected Sensors app in the LCD UI. Again, we're still working on adding support in the other UI's, but I've asked the Android app team to at least have basic on/off and dimming support there as quickly as possible.
We also have a much improved keyboard for the LCD, a new, improved setup wizard, support for more sensors and general overall improvements. I don't have the full release notes yet, but I'll be posting everything on the blog and Kickstarter as soon as it's ready.
All I'm trying to say here is that we're not sitting idly on our hands doing nothing, progress is being made, it's just not always as quick as I'd like, because just like you guys, I'm actually using the Almond+ at home as my main router. Maybe I'm just lucky, but I haven't had any major problems. Are there things missing? Of course there is and because I'm the guy in the company that's the closest to you guys, I'm also the person pushing the hardest for things to be fixed. It's not an easy job, as I have to justify why something should be done ahead of something else, but please understand that I'm on your side as long as your requests are reasonable.