Securifi Community Forum
Sensors and Home Automation => Home automation => Topic started by: grouter on March 13, 2015, 01:40:23 pm
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I had an Aeon Labs appliance switch paired with my Almond+. I received a replacement Almond+ but never unpaired the switch from the original.
How can I get these two connected?
Thanks
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You need to use the remove option in the LCD UI and then initiate the pairing process on the device. This will reset the sensor and then you can add it again.
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The problem is that the sensor was never registered on my current A+. It was registered on the one returned to Securifi.
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I did remove the sensor using the LCD before I shipped the old one back. I guess it didn't register the change with the sensor?
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Do what Lars said. In z wave networks you don't need to use the same network to remove the device. It is a fail safe so that if like happened with you, something goes wrong you can still reset your devices.
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I see... thanks. I did a "remove all" from the LCD and that unpaired it. Now the switch is blinking as it should when not paired, but I can't get the Almond+ to see it...
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Not sure how, but it's now paired...
Thanks
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Please do NOT use the remove all option, it simply purges the sensor data from the Almond+, it does not reset the sensors/devices.
Just use remove and do the same process as you would when you add a device.
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Maybe its time to remove the remove all to a different area in the interface...
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Well, there's a big great warning message asking you if you want to remove all sensors and it explains that you may still have to reset them...
I'm not sure how we could make this any more clear.
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I think the bigger question is:
Do we NEED a Remove All option? How many times do people use it or expect to? Will the majority of people have so many items that they cannot remove them individually?
IMO: An add/remove section separate from the devices might be useful. The current model seems app-store driven... Should it be more like a list of all the "added devices" that someone could manipulate. Use that section for grouping them, removing them, editing them (not usage, but name and location), maybe allow unsupported ones to be "re-detected" in case the software would work now.
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The remove all option is more or less there for when you want to purge all the sensors/devices from your Almond+.
It's not possible to re-detect a pair sensor/device unless you remove it and pair it again.
Why would we have an add/remove section somewhere else than where it is? It's possible to do Edit, Remove on individual sensors, but that just removes them from the Almond+, it doesn't reset them.
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Some Lars quotes, in no particular order:
>> You need to use the remove option in the LCD UI and then initiate the pairing process on the device. This will reset the sensor and then you can add it again.
Okay, so "removing" a single sensor "resets" it and "removes" it so it can be re-added to the Almond+. I'm with you...
>> Please do NOT use the remove all option, it simply purges the sensor data from the Almond+, it does not reset the sensors/devices.
Okay now, hold on... "Removing all" only removes sensors and their data from the Almond+ but does not "reset" any sensors. This is where disconnect is between these two operations.
>> The remove all option is more or less there for when you want to purge all the sensors/devices from your Almond+.
Understood. But when I want to purge all sensors from the Almond+ I want them reset so I can start over.
>> It's possible to do Edit, Remove on individual sensors, but that just removes them from the Almond+, it doesn't reset them.
Wait, what? Please see quote #1 above.
>> Well, there's a big great warning message asking you if you want to remove all sensors and it explains that you may still have to reset them... I'm not sure how we could make this any more clear.
You could at least make the "remove" functions consistent--either reset the sensors or not, both when removing one or removing all.
See the reason for confusion? Either "removing" a single sensor resets it or not. "Removing all" resets none. These two functions should do the same things, but to either one sensor or all at once.
Thanks
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The Edit. Remove option is under Connected Sensors, not under Add Sensor. It'll reset mains powered ZigBee sensors, but no other sensors.
This is down to how some of the logic that's outside of our control works.
Z-Wave sensors always have to be removed using the Remove option under Add sensors, as this is the only way to reset them. You can not pair a Z-Wave sensor that has been paired with another controller/gateway until you've unpaired/removed/reset it using either the Remove option on the Almond+ (this can be done with a sensor that was paired to another controller/gateway though) or a similar option on another controller gateway. Note that you have to start the pairing process on Z-Wave sensors to remove/reset them and this applies to all Z-Wave sensors.
ZigBee sensors can always be manually reset, be it by pressing a button, using a menu option or doing something else provided in the instructions from the sensor manufacturer. As such, it doesn't really matter how you remove ZigBee sensors, as they can always be reset afterwards. Many battery powered sensors can't be removed using either remove option in our UI, as they're sleepy sensors and as such can't be reset this way.
This is all part of the spec for the two standards and neither allows for mass removal/reset of sensors, you can only do one at a time. As such, the remove all option should generally not be used, unless you have a bunch of ZigBee devices that you can reset after purging the data from the Almond+.
Hopefully this makes things a bit more clear.
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Maybe it is that way for the specs and such but there is no reason to separate it for the users. Individual users (even moderately advanced users) will not make the distinction between how ZigBee and Z-Wave should be removed. So a single Remove UI step that is interpreted as needed by the software should do the job. Further, there is no reason I can think of why the Remove All should not work "properly", although I am open to correction. My thinking for the Remove All is that, even if they need to be done one at a time, remove them in sequence one at a time until they are all gone. If a user has a bunch of sensors, give a progress box that shows "Removing X of Y" where X is the integer of the for loop that the developers make to run through removing each sensor individually.
If it takes a minute or two (or many depending on your number of items) to Remove All, so be it. People likely will not do it too often anyways but when you do, you expect it to work. So far I have seen multiple people on the forums (just about everyone that mentions Remove All) expecting it to actually remove (with the reset).
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Well, it's not possible, as the two technologies works differently. ZigBee devices can't be removed the same way a Z-Wave device can :-\
Adding them is done in more or less the same way though, but removing them is very different.
As an example, a door/window sensor. For Z-Wave, you'd push a button or tamper switch to pair and unpair it. For ZigBee you'd push a button to pair, but you can't initiate any kind of remove command from the gateway/controller to remove it, you can only purge the data from the gateway/controller as battery powered ZigBee devices can't be woken up (as they're sleepy devices) and then be told to disconnect from the network. Instead you'd simply perform a reset on the device itself so it can be paired again. Sure, you can tap on Remove in the LCD UI on the Almond+ and press and hold the button on the door/window sensor down to reset and 50% of the time, you'll see something in the LCD about the sensor having been removed, but the other 50% of the time, it won't do it due to the fact that this is a sleepy device and it didn't update the gateway/controller in time before the connection was broken.
Remove all wouldn't work like that either, based on the above. For Z-Wave you have to manually interact with the sensor/device to reset it. ZigBee devices would simply just be dropped/purged and that's that.
Maybe we should change the name of the option instead to Purge Sensors or something like that, as that is what it does and it's meant as a reset for the Almond+, not the sensors.
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I guess I still do not get it, sorry.
ZigBee sensors just get removed "purged" from the list.
Z-Wave sensors get reset (if possible) and removed "purged".
If the Almond+ knows which device is which (it does, doesn't it?) why could it not call the ZigBee method for those and the Z-Wave method for those. Same when Remove All? As it goes through the loop per device, just have it call the correct routine by type. If the customer needs to do something manually after that, so be it, but it was outside your control anyways. At the Almond+ though it all still looks the same to the customer.
Now if the Almond+ cannot identify which type of sensor it is... Things get weird...
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No, you always have to do something to a Z-Wave sensor to unpair/reset it, usually it's the same or similar to the pairing process, i.e. you have to press a button, a tamper switch or go into a menu etc. or it won't reset.
As such, using the remove all option, you wouldn't be able to do this, as you'd have to manually do something to each of your sensors/devices all at the same time, more or less, to reset them. So what you're suggesting is just not possible. :-\
What Remove All does is it just deletes the file in the Almond+ that stores the sensor list and the keys for each of the sensors that are generated when a new sensor is added.
The Remove option on the other hand when it comes to Z-Wave sensors sends a signal to the sensor asking for a correct reply which in this case should be a request to be disconnected from the gateway/controller and then be reset. If the Almond+ doesn't get the right response, it won't do anything. Most ZigBee devices on the other hand don't care about this, but if you don't reset them, they're going to try to reconnect to the gateway/controller, even though you've removed the connection from one end, which would finally lead to the battery being depleted if it's a battery powered device.
Yes, it's not the most constant way of doing things. but as I said, we don't make the standards and these things were decided a very long time ago.