Securifi Community Forum
Securifi Products => Almond+ => Topic started by: gof on October 28, 2015, 02:45:39 pm
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The continued lack of updates and seemingly limited options to keep my A+ going forward have me looking at options. I'm having WiFi connectivity gaps, and with the limited "automation" options for the automation side, I'm thinking that while this unit "delivered", it's not what I had hoped it would be based on the KS goals.
So, I'm looking at what other options people have explored or moved into while waiting/hoping the A+ would strengthen. I've seen good reviews of the TP-Link C7 and the Netgear AC1750 (R6400). Those would both cover the WiFi router side. For an automation hub, it looks like the newest SmartThings is doing well (wish I had stayed on the KS, I pledged, then decided to back off). Later went with the A+. Bad decision in hindsight.
I don't need a see-spot-run interface. I'm ok with scripts and code (and I've run Tomato on other routers in the past). I mentor an FTC Robotics team so programming is par for the course. But I don't want to have to babysit an appliance from day to day. It should get set up and then just "work".
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I have the TPlink Archer C7. I bought it to work with the Almond to fill in a hole in my house, but noticed a bigger range cloud for it than the A+. Put in it's place, the TP link box has improved range, speed and stability. LAN connections are MUCH faster, and connectivity for the WAN lines is more reliable. I'll also finally be able to do NAS through it, since it's supported. It talks about this "beamforming" which I think is bull, but am playing with it to see. The other router I would have considered was the Netgear nighthawk X8, but unless this TP lin kis a real disappointment I don't want to lay out even more. The range still isn't perfect for my application, but I'm not willing to spend that money to see if the Netgear box is better... yet.
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The ISY from universal devices is very solid. Does insteon and zwave. Being worked on are node servers to integrate other devices like hue, nest and so on.
http://forum.universal-devices.com/
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I've been playing with UniFi access points. Pretty slick setup. Buy a 3-pack from Amazon and you can cover any house size and a huge yard without issue. Handoff between APs is seamless. Note they have several models, with one being "long range".
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I ended up getting a separate router, hub, and access point. To route I got a Ubiquiti Edge Router X, for home automation I got a smartthings hub, and for Wi-Fi I got an Amped Titan-AP.
With everything separate if something takes a dump or doesn't work the way I want I can just replace it without having to dump everything all at once. I have more configuration flexibility and options with dedicated devices. If I want to upgrade or reconfigure a piece I can do it without disturbing everything in my network. If some new router, hub, or Wi-Fi AP comes out with something new that I want I can upgrade just that piece.
I have my router, hub, and modem out of the way in the basement and have the AP centrally located on the first floor giving me better coverage with fewer wires than if I tried to do the same with the Almond.
I think this is the way that I should have done things all along. An all in one box sounds nice but I don't think it is the way to go for me anymore.
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Hi all,
Is SmartThings really that great? I am interested to hear opinions about Vera vs SmartThings? Also, curiously enough, here in Southern California, i saw an Insteon kit (hub + 2 dimmers) at Costco for $99, in case you are looking for an Insteon-based system. The wiring in my old house doesn't have a neutral, so Insteon is not within my reach. I would really like to stay with Almond+ - it's a perfect system on paper, but wireless stability issues are killing me...
Andy
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Also, over at OpenHAB, i think they are pretty close to figuring out the resolution to zwave security classes -> https://community.openhab.org/t/z-wave-schlage-lock-support/2341
When that's done, i think, openHab on raspi with Aeon stick will be a very cheap and viable alternative to whatever it is out there in HA space as well.
Andy
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Hi all,
Is SmartThings really that great? .
Andy
Yes, yes, and bunny YESSssssss. Jumped to V2 last night. Up and running with rules and monitoring in 2-3 hours. Four plugs, three flood sensors, two garage tilt sensors, and four switches with a siren and a harmony hub. The UI is SWEET, and the community is alive and vibrant with new apps and devices every day. Sonos. MyQ. ECHO. Cameras. Geofencing. Modes (more than two). And Customer service? Emails replied to within hours.
I'm KICKING myself for not doing this sooner. It's everything Almond wants to be, with an up to date chipset. Lightening fast responses, connectivity in seconds, no range issues (an actual MESH network that may in fact have never been with almond).
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@obmd1 - Nice! Thank you for this encouraging review, i guess i am not going to look at Vera Edge any more... Does st v2 work well with Schlage locks? Can it also mesh zwave v5 with v4?
Andy
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Does st v2 work well with Schlage locks? Can it also mesh zwave v5 with v4?
Andy
Yes yes and yes. Depending on which of the 3 "major" Schlage lock apps you choose to go with, you can even set your lock touchpad to control other HA functions , send a push notification or text if the door has been tampered with or somebody enters and invalid code x times. You can set temp codes, codes only good during certain hours and even single use codes all through the app.
There was a FW update to ST V2 last week that sent some Zigbee devices ( mainly GE bulbs and Securifi peanut ) over the edge, but the fix was pushed out within 36 hours. Made for some interesting Halloween posts about possessed houses though.
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Just a heads up that the SmartThings v2 hub in the UK has really limited device support. I have no idea why Samsung/SmartThings have done this, but I can't even connect a WeMo switch to one I'm testing at the moment.
Personally I can't stand their new app, not that the old one was particularly great, but that's just my personal opinion.
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To be honest, I got a STv2 myself to test out and it is leagues ahead of Almond+. I thought having the ability to detect IP on connection would be useful, but then STv2 handles most of that well enough.
I am definitely not disappointed, and I think Almond+ is pretty good, but ST is leagues ahead. The kickstarter investment was definitely worth it, but I would never buy at full retail price.
One thing, I will say is that engagement in this forum went down after Lars left. I believe Ashok and the others are trying their best, but the fact that they are so constrained in their ability to engage that this will never be the vibrant community I thought it will be.
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<deleted by author>
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...The Almond + app is much more straightforward and easy to learn. However, since Samsung is a billion dollar company comparing Samsung to Securifi is an unfair fight and quite pointless to me. Smartthings will always have way more options, be more stable, be more polished and probably the first choice for most over Almond, especially the techs who like to go deeper, code their own things and tweak things to their heart's content....
I am all for rooting for the underdog, except, in this case, i paid money for the underdog's product. So, from the perspective of a consumer, i don't really give a rat's tail about drawing comparisons between samsung and securifi. I was promised a product, i paid for such promised product, at the end i didn't receive what was promised. And as an additional slap in the face, i am asked to sign up for beta program to, under NDA, mind you, help test the beta features of this beta product, that should have been there in the first place. As an additional kick in the gut, since there's no roadmap for releasing updates beyond 0.80, it's looking like signing up for the beta program is the only way to receive the potential alleged fixes for the wifi instability that lots of folks are seemingly experiencing here.
.... Once the Securifi team solves some of the current bugs, polishes up the app/WUI, fixes the WiFi issues, adds support for a greater array and choice of sensors it will be an ever better product to me than it already is. :D
I don't quite understand the consumer retention strategy of the securifi here. 6 pages of "DUE for an update!" thread should have signaled someone that something may not be right and people are frustrated. While the mere existence of the current thread would have caused some heads to fly if this was on samsung forums. Securifi success with their initial Almond offering gave their Almond+ KS some credibility. I hope they figure out the Almond+ situation eventually, at least for my sake. I really would like to recommend the end product to others. However, i will be staying a long distance away from securifi future KS campaigns.
Andy
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However, since Samsung is a billion dollar company comparing Samsung to Securifi is an unfair fight and quite pointless to me.
You could say the same thing about Vera.
I don't want us to get all pedantic, but I see that Securifi has a niche that they can fill. I like the product and I have spoken with Ashok and team multiple times. They are extremely good and are genuinely interested in helping, no complaints there.
However, my concerns are with the latest design decisions and I have been quite vocal about them. For a product that needs to improve quite a bit, I have a feeling they are going backwards and that makes me worry.
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We are now 2 months past the promised release of this " major update" that will fix all our problems.
ST V2 is undeniably far from perfect, but since ST was also " the little guy" and 90% of the usability and compatibility was there before Samsung purchased them you can't say that it is Samsung's deep pockets that allowed it to excel in certain areas. If you want to put the credit where it belongs, it is ST's open platform and community support that has made it ( IMHO ) so far ahead in the HA platform. Prime example somebody found some Cetralite xfinity alarm keypads on sale on Fleabay. Members of the ST community forum bought the guy's entire stock ( I got 2 myself) . Once they got delivered it was a matter of hours when the community members came up with a device type and app to program the keypad and had it working in ST to change modes and set routines.
Members of this forum have been asking ( begging ) Securifi to open up the platform for community support since day 2. Having 1000 community members collaborating on a project they have a vested interest in ( getting their own "things" to work) will always solve an issue before 10 guys in a lab getting paid by the hour. Securifi has made the decision to go their own way and hold all their own marbles in their own basket.
The biggest improvement in ST from A+ is integration with other systems. Yes I really do miss the touchscreen and LAN web interfaces. However being able to link all 5 of my hubs into one central control app that can control across multiple platforms seamlessly more than makes up for losing the touchscreen.
Yes A+ can turn on the lights when somebody opens the front door. However it can't tell me who opened the door ( push notification and/or SMS ) , welcome them home, turn on that person's favorite radio or TV show, and set the thermostat to their preferred temperature when they open the door.
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I hear you and those in the previous comments. Sounds like a lot of frustration, especially from those that backed the product through Kickstarter. To me the biggest letdown to the product will be if the wireless issues-that happen to some, are never resolved. Also, I think a big threat to the product will be if and when a competitor comes out with a router that has an LCD (on the router) and a basic mobile app to manage the router-which are two features I really like.
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For a home automation hub, you might consider the Staples Connect D-Link hub. Rock solid, everything operates locally, has Lutron in addition to Z-Wave and Zigbee which means you can use the awesome Lutron Caseta PicoRemotes as switches for anything in your system (plus if you don't have a neutral wire the Lutron controller only requires black). Main downside is it's unclear if it's still being supported, but if the hub is still free with purchase of two >$30 accessories it's well worthwhile, and it works with most Z-Wave / Zigbee devices, including my Schlage Z-wave door lock and Nortek (Linear) garage door opener.
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We are now 2 months past the promised release of this " major update" that will fix all our problems.
ST V2 is undeniably far from perfect, but since ST was also " the little guy" and 90% of the usability and compatibility was there before Samsung purchased them you can't say that it is Samsung's deep pockets that allowed it to excel in certain areas. If you want to put the credit where it belongs, it is ST's open platform and community support that has made it ( IMHO ) so far ahead in the HA platform. Prime example somebody found some Cetralite xfinity alarm keypads on sale on Fleabay. Members of the ST community forum bought the guy's entire stock ( I got 2 myself) . Once they got delivered it was a matter of hours when the community members came up with a device type and app to program the keypad and had it working in ST to change modes and set routines.
Members of this forum have been asking ( begging ) Securifi to open up the platform for community support since day 2. Having 1000 community members collaborating on a project they have a vested interest in ( getting their own "things" to work) will always solve an issue before 10 guys in a lab getting paid by the hour. Securifi has made the decision to go their own way and hold all their own marbles in their own basket.
The biggest improvement in ST from A+ is integration with other systems. Yes I really do miss the touchscreen and LAN web interfaces. However being able to link all 5 of my hubs into one central control app that can control across multiple platforms seamlessly more than makes up for losing the touchscreen.
Yes A+ can turn on the lights when somebody opens the front door. However it can't tell me who opened the door ( push notification and/or SMS ) , welcome them home, turn on that person's favorite radio or TV show, and set the thermostat to their preferred temperature when they open the door.
Agree and agree. I'm sure there's another beta coming though.....
The biggest plus for me for ST is the ability to do it yourself. MyQ, Harmony, other cloud to cloud integration solutions are all out there on code sharing sites. Cut and paste. I'm no computer scientist. Sometimes it works, and sometimes it doesn't, but I'm not wating around for another beta. Then add ECHO integration, the ability to actually make a MESH network, the phone app beauty and function, and actual customer support? Hu-ZAH. I was using the A+ as a range extendeer after it got shoved out of the closet when I went to ST.... but the connection dropped too often. sigh.
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Agree and agree. I'm sure there's another beta coming though.....
The biggest plus for me for ST is the ability to do it yourself. MyQ, Harmony, other cloud to cloud integration solutions are all out there on code sharing sites. Cut and paste. I'm no computer scientist. Sometimes it works, and sometimes it doesn't, but I'm not waiting around for another beta. Then add ECHO integration, the ability to actually make a MESH network, the phone app beauty and function, and actual customer support? Hu-ZAH. I was using the A+ as a range extendeer after it got shoved out of the closet when I went to ST.... but the connection dropped too often. sigh.
I'm still using A+ as main router and WiFi ,with an original Almond as range extender/AP.
A+ network ( both WiFi and LAN) stability has greatly improved since I removed all of the HA from it. Connection speeds are still not what I expect, but at least ( for the most part) the constant completely losing connection has stopped. I can't sit here with WiFi analyzer watching the signal cycle on/off. This totally unscientific test tells me that the A+ hardware just can't handle complex HA setups with multiple sensors. The only HA duty the A+ has now is to do a general exclusion to reset new devices before I add them to ST.
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This totally unscientific test tells me that the A+ hardware just can't handle complex HA setups with multiple sensors.
In my setup, this just isn't true. I don't know what qualifies as a "complex HA setup with multiple sensors," but I have over a dozen sensors added with various rules and scenes. On the networking side I use 2.4Ghz and 5Ghz for dozens of devices, plus have a few wired connections and a VOIP setup. I connect to VPN endpoints on the outside on a daily basis without issue. I stream Netflix/Amazon/local LAN Plex content/Play Music on a daily basis and the quality is great. I did have some wifi issues early on, but that was back in Jan/Feb timeframe. Wireless and VPN has been stable since.
HA, however, hasn't been as "easy" and it's been quite painful at times. I must say that since the last several beta releases the HA side of my setup is definitely more usable and solid. Maybe part of this has to do with me learning how to remove/add existing sensors, but overall I think Securifi is on the right track and that the A+ can do wifi and HA as designed.
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In my setup, this just isn't true. I don't know what qualifies as a "complex HA setup with multiple sensors," but I have over a dozen sensors added with various rules and scenes. On the networking side I use 2.4Ghz and 5Ghz for dozens of devices, plus have a few wired connections and a VOIP setup.
In my world, that is a simple setup. ;D ;D
I have over 50 HA sensors and devices ( mixture of zwave and zigbee ) , along with 30-40 internet clients on LAN and WiFi at any given time.
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In my world, that is a simple setup. ;D ;D
I have over 50 HA sensors and devices ( mixture of zwave and zigbee ) , along with 30-40 internet clients on LAN and WiFi at any given time.
30-40 internet clients on a LAN in a residential setup? PLUS 50 HA sensors?
100 devices does not sound like a typical residential setup but it does sound like an interesting setup.
Would be interested to see a list of the 100 devices and what is being done with them.
Theoretical limits of 250 devices runs into issues when you have say, 100 video streaming devices.
I now have 5 residences using 'basic' home automation and about 15-30 HA devices with 25 or less internet clients at each location running without issues. I do have scripting handling tasks that are not available via the rule sets.
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100 devices does not sound like a typical residential setup but it does sound like an interesting setup.
Would be interested to see a list of the 100 devices and what is being done with them.
I never claimed to be "typical" :-) Nothing spectacular either.
O/C sensors on exterior doors and windows, Zwave locks, half dozen PIRs. Almost every light is either TCP Connected, Hue, generic Zigbee bulb or on Z-wave switch. Moisture and temp sensors under sinks , dishwasher, washing machine. Harmony home hub for entertainment center, 2 Echoes , 2 Hue hubs, Aeon HEM, 3 mini-motes.
Waiting to see if Amazon opens up multi-room playing and custom responses before getting Sonos . That's why I got new Chromecast audio, but it is far from reliable
8 channel hardwired CCTV for outside of the house with DVR in basement, 5 IP cameras for interior , 3 desktop computers, 4 laptops. 5 tablets and 6 phones half of which are used as physical access terminals for HA and to monitor the CCTV cameras over LAN. 4 Tvs , 2 Tivo DVRs, 3 Tivo Mini all with internet, 3 blu-ray players, Chromecast, Roku, Amazon FireTV. I'm sure I missed a few things.
Everything that can be, is hardwired to LAN . 8 port switch in basement for CCTV, NAS, Moca array, Moca adapters through house feeding 4-6 port switches in bedrooms and daughter's office.
I'm sitting here at the desk, Tablet to my right with the exterior cameras up, working on desktop, game playing on another tablet with old Galaxy S4 monitoring HA, while the wife is in the next room streaming Netflix through Tivo to TV while playing a game on her tablet and reading on Kindle, daughter is upstairs on her laptop, streaming music through her tablet while watching TV via Tivo Mini, on Facebook ( assuming ) on her phone.
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Very nice. Thanks for sharing.
Switches should really help keep the noise down on the LAN. Can't see that your IP stuff would hit the Almond+ too hard other than the video feeds which should be QoS'd.
The number of devices doesn't sound like a problem either but I think some meshing could have been a problem with all the lights. Once you are talking about 50 bulbs on multiple floors and remote sections of the house, I have seen problems with that using any system. I have 25 or fewer bulbs in each home and the A+ handles it fine.
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Actually I only have 6 (?) Zigbee bulbs, mix of GE and Cree, about the same Hue and TCP connect, but those are on their own respective hubs so only generate LAN traffic through A+
I reserved bulbs for installations where switches are not possible ( lamps, ceiling fans ) . Or rather upgraded from bulbs to ZW switches wherever possible.
Add 3 more Aeon ZW metering appliance switches I just got in yesterday. Not that I need to ever turn off my HE center, fridge or basement freezer , never mind do it remotely. However now I can tell you exactly how much electricity each is using. Mainly to enhance ZW mesh. I'll move them next week to automate more of my Christmas display.
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Any hub suggestions that are true local control? As far as I can tell, the SmartThingsV2 cannot be controlled if your internet connection is down. Most of these devices continue to do automated tasks, but require "the cloud" in order for a device on the same network to be able to simply turn on a light.
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Any hub suggestions that are true local control? As far as I can tell, the SmartThingsV2 cannot be controlled if your internet connection is down. Most of these devices continue to do automated tasks, but require "the cloud" in order for a device on the same network to be able to simply turn on a light.
The local control ( via touchsreen and LAN ) is the one thing you really give up when you give up on A+/ A2015 .
The new Harmony system I believe offers local control via the remote, but again they have only a very limited number of certified devices, only work with zigbee
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Actually I only have 6 (?) Zigbee bulbs, mix of GE and Cree, about the same Hue and TCP connect, but those are on their own respective hubs so only generate LAN traffic through A+
I reserved bulbs for installations where switches are not possible ( lamps, ceiling fans ) . Or rather upgraded from bulbs to ZW switches wherever possible.
Add 3 more Aeon ZW metering appliance switches I just got in yesterday. Not that I need to ever turn off my HE center, fridge or basement freezer , never mind do it remotely. However now I can tell you exactly how much electricity each is using. Mainly to enhance ZW mesh. I'll move them next week to automate more of my Christmas display.
Controlling the lights is one of my favorite features of the A+. The Crees work great with my system, the GE stuff works but is more easily disconnects when used locally (manual switch) or power surges/outages. The Hue bulbs are great, pricey, but a hit with everyone.
I too have developed a power profile based on the couple metering devices, good info and has allowed me to make a few adjustments.