Converting the Securifi water sensor to a hidden reed sensor.

[eldaria]

I wanted a door sensor that is hidden. There are some out there but they are rather expensive.
For example this one from Aeon Labs:
http://aeotec.com/hidden-z-wave-door-sensor

So I decided to see if I could convert the water sensor from Securifi.
I decided for the Water sensor since it would be the easiest to work with since it already has a cable, and it also has flat batteries as opposed to the round one in the reed sensor so it takes less space.

Anyway I bought some cheap recessed reed sensors, like this one on e-bay, I did not buy this specific one, but one in a local shop, but they look the same.
http://r.ebay.com/WUHUwh

Now I need to figure out a better way to put the transmitter, so I won't have to remove the edge of the door frame when the battery is empty.

Also there is one downside, the sensor is reversed, so when the door is closed it reports open, and when closed it reports open.

[PhilShifley]

Likely reason for backward reporting is from using a water sensor. Typically water sensors trigger when the circuit is completed through water touching both wires/prongs. Your door when closed is completing the circuit for the water sensor.

A door sensor reads closed when the circuit is complete (magnets line up). And they read open when the circuit is broken (magnets apart). Opposite of water sensor.

Water sensor:
No water = open circuit
Water = Closed circuit

Door sensor:
Door closed = magnets aligned = closed circuit
Door open = magnets apart = open circuit

Presence of water to water sensor is like an open door to door sensor.

You created this:
Door closed = magnets aligned = closed circuit = water
Water sensor is reporting so you get something that looks like you have water (or an open door) when the door is shut.

If you aren’t opposed to z-wave, try a sensor like in this link that will let you run wires between the sensor and your hidden magnet contact: http://www.monoprice.com/Product?p_id=10795

Good luck

[PhilShifley]

Now I need to figure out a better way to put the transmitter, so I won't have to remove the edge of the door frame when the battery is empty.

Also there is one downside, the sensor is reversed, so when the door is closed it reports open, and when closed it reports open.

You may already be aware of this, but just in case: Usually when sensors are embedded in the door the transmitter is mounted on the wall beside the door trim. The wires are run behind the trim. This gives access for annual battery replacement in the transmitter. If the transmitter is small (like the monoprice one I linked earlier) it shouldn't stand out.

No wires are seen. Wires go from recessed contact sensor, run behind frame directly into the transmitter mounted snugly beside the frame.

I agree the Aeotec all-in-one recessed contact/transmitter looks nice & solves all the problems, but isn't cheap at $75+.

[eldaria]

Well in regards to the Open/Closed thing, I could build a simple NOT circuit and put in between, or just correct it in Software, it really does not matter what it tells the software as long as you set the rules and scenes correctly.

In regards to the placement of the transmitter, the idea was to hide it completely so that it is not visible from inside or outside the door/window.
I was thinking about drilling a hole into the frame(see picture) and then simply put the battery/transmitter in there. This way you can't get to it unless you open the door. But that will be a later project. Also this would not work in other places such as windows.

[LGNilsson]

The Monoprice one isn't small, it's quite large, in fact, it's about the same same size as the door sensor we offered to our backers and larger than the flood/water sensor.

I'll check with the software team if there's an "easy" way to reverse the reporting of a sensor.

[Patrick Wilson]

The Monoprice one isn't small, it's quite large, in fact, it's about the same same size as the door sensor we offered to our backers and larger than the flood/water sensor.

I'll check with the software team if there's an "easy" way to reverse the reporting of a sensor.

Wonderful idea.  Support for this,  would definitely help keep it an "open" platform.   

[fillibar]

Software reversal would be beneficial for many sensors I imagine. I may want to monitor my aquarium equipment and not having water (in some scenarios) would be a bigger deal. Or as long as the software can recognize and trigger on either state, configurable be user, or state changes... Those would be better in my book then just telling a sensor to reverse value (although even if you can trigger from any state, it may be easier for some people conceptually to allow reversal).

[LGNilsson]

That's an unusual usage scenario, but it should technically work as long as you're aware that the flood sensor is a simple binary switch with two metal headers that report "flooded" when the two pins are shorted. Technically it should work for what you want as well, although the water level would have to drop to such a level that the two pins are no longer shorted for you to get a notification.

[eldaria]

Software reversal would be beneficial for many sensors I imagine. I may want to monitor my aquarium equipment and not having water (in some scenarios) would be a bigger deal. Or as long as the software can recognize and trigger on either state, configurable be user, or state changes... Those would be better in my book then just telling a sensor to reverse value (although even if you can trigger from any state, it may be easier for some people conceptually to allow reversal).

I like the idea, just remember that the sensor sends a small current through the pins to measure if there is a short, I don't have it near me right now so can't measure it.
But I have no idea how it would affect an aquarium.

I was actually thinking if it could be used to measure if the flowers needs to be watered, I suppose an analog sensor would be more suited for this, to measure the level of moist in the dirt and not if it is moist or not moist. The Flood sensor is a binary sensor so might not work.

[fillibar]

Impact on an aquarium would likely be nonexistent but I would check it anyways. Besides, I would use it more for a water topoff and change system than in the tank itself.

I agree that flowers would need analog sensor. Too many varieties with different water demands and a binary sensor would probably only be useful in telling you that you are drowning the flower unless it is hydroponic. Could be useful (if able to be weatherproofed) for a pond or pool monitor, again that they are not too low.

Back to a reed switch... A floating magnet in a water storage might be able to tell you rough capacity if you have multiple switches that the magnet could travel past.

[eldaria]

That would probably work well.
The reed sensors is likely to be able to measure through the glass, but I don't think you will be able to measure very precisely. But it should be able to tell if you get below a certain level.

[fillibar]

Sorry, I should describe my usage a bit as this would NEVER go in my aquarium itself. The floating reed switch and such types of sensors would be attached to my sump or water top-off system. The multi-sensor concept would be for my top-off. That is a 3ft (~1m) tall plastic container ~2ft (.67m) across. That dispenses water into my sump (a much thicker plastic material) which is a 100 gallon (~380L) stock tank.

This type of multi-sensor would never be for great accuracy. That would require an analog (or fine precision digital sensor). In essence this would be recreating a limited point digital sensor with some BIG limitations.
1) Say you have 5 reed switches up the side of a container like mine. I would position them at EMPTY, 25%, 50% 75%, and 100% (approximately).
2) The sensors would only trigger when the magnet is close. That would actually be pretty rare...
3) So you would have to have some logic built in to remember which sensor it last passed AND which direction it was heading.
4) Some specific logic would apply for the EMPTY and 100% levels. Ex: EMPTY = Shut off transfer pump to sump and turn on water filling system. 100% would shut off the water filling system.
5) It would require ANOTHER sensor somewhere (sump in my case) that tells me when it needs water. Let me call that the "Water Low". So the example of that logic would be: Water Low triggered, turn on transfer pump.

[eldaria]

I would not rely on radio communication for shutting off the water. What if for some reason there is a delay due to interference?

I don't have an aquarium, but I would probably have only one sensor, and that is for sending a signal to start the filling when it is below a certain level..
Then I would have a mechanical system using some kind of floatation to sense when the water is full and then shut of the water.
And probably an normal water sensor to detect if for some reason the water flows over for what ever reason, and it will shut down the water completely.

[eldaria]

Ok so in my project to convert the Securifi Water sensor to a Reed sensor I have done some progress in re-configuring the sensor so that it shows up as a correct sensor type on the Almond+.

The first Water sensors I got was detected as a Contact Switch I heard this was a firmware error in the sensors, but well worked for me. :-).
But the later batch are correctly detected as Flood Sensors when I associate them.
However since I do not want them to be Flood Sensors, I was trying to find a way to convert the sensor, and I think I found the way.

So for those who want to do this, this is how I did it.

Make sure no sensors change status during this as it will overwrite your changes.
Log in through ssh and modify the file /tmp/DeviceList.xml

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vi /tmp/DeviceList.xml
If you are unfamiliar with vi, here is a quick guide.
Use arrow keys to get around, and when you found what you want to edit hit the 'i' key on the keyboard to get into insert mode.
Make your changes and hit the escape key to get out of insert mode then type a colon ':' to get into command mode and typ wq and hit enter to save and close.

You will find a list of all associated sensors here and their information.

Here is how one of my Flood Sensors looked like.

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        <Device ID="3">                                                                                             
                <Name>FloodSensor #3</Name>                                                                         
                <Location>Default</Location>                                                                       
                <OZWNode>NaN</OZWNode>                                                                             
                <ZigBeeShortID>0x474b</ZigBeeShortID>                                                               
                <ZigBeeEUI64>00:0d:6f:00:03:1b:9a:1c</ZigBeeEUI64>                                                 
                <DeviceTechnology>ZigBeeTechnology</DeviceTechnology>                                               
                <AssociationTimeStamp>1412414031</AssociationTimeStamp>                                             
                <DeviceType>WaterSensor</DeviceType>                                                               
                <FriendlyDeviceType>WaterSensor</FriendlyDeviceType>                                               
                <AllowNotification>1</AllowNotification>                                                           
                <ValueVariables Count="3">                                                                         
                        <LastKnownValue Index="1" EndPoint="1" Name="STATE" Type="Bool">false</LastKnownValue>     
                        <LastKnownValue Index="2" EndPoint="1" Name="LOW BATTERY" Type="Bool">false</LastKnownValue>
                        <LastKnownValue Index="3" EndPoint="1" Name="TAMPER" Type="Bool">false</LastKnownValue>     
                </ValueVariables>                                                                                   
        </Device>                                                                                                   

The only thing you actually need to change is the

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<DeviceType>WaterSensor</DeviceType>Change it into

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<DeviceType>ContactSwitch</DeviceType>
Save your file and copy it to root

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cp /tmp/DeviceList.xml /

And finally restart the haserver.

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pkill -9 haserver
Now your sensor is a ContactSwitch instead.



The only thing that is still not working as it should is that the sensor is reversed, so when the reed sensor is closed then the Almond reports open, i'm still working on this.

Having a look at what the ZigbeeServer sends it seems that when a Real Reed Sensor detects the magnet it sends:

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{INFO}  status change 0x38 from device 0x3ed8
And when the Magnet is removed:

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{INFO}  status change 0x39 from device 0x3ed8
While when a Watersensor sends the reversed situation.
When no water detected:

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{INFO}  status change 0x38 from device 0x4519
When shorted(water detected):

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{INFO}  status change 0x39 from device 0x4519
So I suppose I have to figure out where this is configured in the server, or I have to reverse it directly on the cable using a NOT circuit.