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Author Topic: Cannot connect Almond router with Motorola SB6141 Cable Modem  (Read 24222 times)

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Offline criveraf

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Hello,

I just purchased a new Motorola SB6141 Cable Modem.

Comcast activated this modem. They say it is active and they can see that the connection is live. The Internet connectivity light on the front of the modem is on solid.

If I connect a laptop directly to the Cable Modem the ethernet link light flashes indicating connectivity. I can browse the internet in my laptop this way.

Now I want to setup my Almond as a router to connect other computers and devices at home.

If I then disconnect the ethernet cable from the laptop and plug it in to the top white socket on the back of the Almond router the ethernet link light on the cable modem turns off. No lights flash on the white network socket on the back of the Almond router either.

The Almond router also indicates that the cable is not connected.

My Almond router is 1 month old and was working well with my previous cable modem (Linksys). I got rid of the Linksys modem and got the Motorola SB6141, which as stated above is working fine standalone (directly connected to my laptop), but not if I connect it to my Almond router.

I reset the Almond router to factory settings by pressing the reset button on the back, to no avail.

However, all computers connected to the Almond router can see each other as part of the same network. None of them can connect to the internet because the router and the modem cannot see each other.

HELP!

Thanks,
Carlos

Offline eldaria

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Re: Cannot connect Almond router with Motorola SB6141 Cable Modem
« Reply #1 on: July 09, 2014, 09:24:10 am »
Hmm, just guessing here, but could it be the Ethernet cable is a crossover cable or that you need a crossover cable?

If neither the Almond or the Motorola has auto sensing ports, then this might be the reason?

What happens if you plug the cable to one of the other ports?
Did you try with a different cable?

Offline pete

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Re: Cannot connect Almond router with Motorola SB6141 Cable Modem
« Reply #2 on: July 09, 2014, 10:57:26 am »
Here I am using similar Motorola SB6141 modem with Comcast.

Quote
Model Name: SB6141
Vendor Name: Motorola
Firmware Name: SB_KOMODO-1.0.6.10-SCM00-NOSH
Boot Version: PSPU-Boot(25CLK) 1.0.12.18m3
Hardware Version: 7.0
Firmware Build Time: Oct 29 2012 18:07:13

I have the Almond plus online and connected to the same said modem.

Try the following in order and see if that works for you:

1 - disconnect the power from the Motorola Modem
2 - disconnect the power from the Almond
3 - power up the Motorola Modem
4 - wait a minute or so
5 - power up the Almond

See if it connects to the internet automatically.

The Motorola modem is sticky first configured MAC.  You can restart it:

Restart Cable Modem

Code: [Select]
http://192.168.100.1/cmConfig.htm
Modem reset does:

1 - TFTP pull down of your configuration
2 - booting it will look at the MAC address of whatever is connected to the network port
3 - establish your internet connection using MAC address.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2014, 11:00:09 am by pete »
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Offline criveraf

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Re: Cannot connect Almond router with Motorola SB6141 Cable Modem
« Reply #3 on: July 09, 2014, 11:20:49 am »
Hmm, just guessing here, but could it be the Ethernet cable is a crossover cable or that you need a crossover cable?

If neither the Almond or the Motorola has auto sensing ports, then this might be the reason?

What happens if you plug the cable to one of the other ports?
Did you try with a different cable?

Hello eldaria, thanks for replying.

I don't know if it needs a crossover cable. Is the cable that comes with the Securifi Almond router a cross cable?

The Motorola cable modem came with an ethernet cable, which is the one I initially used to connect the cable modem to the computer as described in my first post. I would assume that this cable is a straight ethernet cable because I am able to connect to the modem and internet from the computer when connected directly to the modem.

Curiously, when I connect that same cable to one of the other two black network sockets on the back of the Almond router (2nd and 3rd sockets), the lights start to flash on the socket and the link light on the front panel of the modem starts to flash too. Is this an indication of what you are saying?

Also, yes, I have tried with other ethernet cables I have, all with the same results.

So I guess the key question is: Is the cable that comes with the Securifi Almond router a cross cable? Haven't tried it yet because I am at work and my modem and router are at home.

Thanks,
Carlos
« Last Edit: July 09, 2014, 12:01:39 pm by criveraf »

Offline criveraf

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Re: Cannot connect Almond router with Motorola SB6141 Cable Modem
« Reply #4 on: July 09, 2014, 11:45:32 am »
Hello pete, thanks for replying.

Here I am using similar Motorola SB6141 modem with Comcast.

I have the Almond plus online and connected to the same said modem.

Try the following in order and see if that works for you:

1 - disconnect the power from the Motorola Modem
2 - disconnect the power from the Almond
3 - power up the Motorola Modem
4 - wait a minute or so
5 - power up the Almond

See if it connects to the internet automatically.

Done. No connection to the internet, though.

The Motorola modem is sticky first configured MAC. 

I don't understand what you mean by this.

You can restart it:

Restart Cable Modem

Code: [Select]
http://192.168.100.1/cmConfig.htm
Modem reset does:

1 - TFTP pull down of your configuration
2 - booting it will look at the MAC address of whatever is connected to the network port
3 - establish your internet connection using MAC address.

I can do this, but, in order to do this, I would have to disconnect it from the Almond router and connect it directly to my computer to be able to reach the 192.168.100.1 address of the modem. Otherwise, I will not be able to reach this address, because, as stated, the Almond router and the modem cannot see each other.

Also, why I would want to restart the cable modem? Aside from what you describe above (1,2,3), what does this do with respect to the router?

Thanks,
Carlos

Offline pete

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Re: Cannot connect Almond router with Motorola SB6141 Cable Modem
« Reply #5 on: July 09, 2014, 01:29:37 pm »
Quote
If I then disconnect the ethernet cable from the laptop and plug it in to the top white socket on the back of the Almond router the ethernet link light on the cable modem turns off. No lights flash on the white network socket on the back of the Almond router either.

The network port on the modem is Gb and the one on the Almond is not.  If the LED light is off a reset of the modem and another cable might work.  I just had a look at the original cable that came with the modem.  Its still wrapped up (never used it).  It is labeled as a standard Cat5e cable.  I am using a standard Cat6 cable with the modem today.  I don't really think that should make a difference anyways.

The Motorola SB6141 bottom Link LED Amber color indicates a 10Mb or 100Mb connection.  When the bottom link LED is Blue then its a Gigabit connection.

BTW I am using the Black SB6141 Motorola modem that was shipped to me in a Motorola box part number: 581902-001-00.  Guessing you have the same model SB6141 in white though instead of black.

Quote
Also, why I would want to restart the cable modem? Aside from what you describe above (1,2,3), what does this do with respect to the router?

When you tested it with your laptop the Motorola modem configured itself on the internet with the MAC address on your laptop.  So your trying to get on the internet with the Almond MAC will not work until you reset the modem.   A reset too might help it auto negociate the speed of the port.  Just unplugging the modem should reset it. 

That said it might be easier if you just call CC and have them reset it from their end with the Almond plugged in.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2014, 01:59:21 pm by pete »
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Pete
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Offline criveraf

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Re: Cannot connect Almond router with Motorola SB6141 Cable Modem
« Reply #6 on: July 09, 2014, 11:03:05 pm »
Hello Pete,

Thanks for replying and clarifying.

I followed your instructions and that did not solve the problem.

This is very frustrating. I'm thinking, this can't be too hard to solve. The Almond router should not be different from any other common router. This should have been a matter of plug-and-play, or close to that. And the Motorola SB6141 is not the problem, so it has to be the router.

What do you think of eldaria's suggestion: using an ethernet crossover cable? Do I need that type of cable to connect the router to the modem?

Been in this frustration for 3 days already. Need help desperately.  Any other ideas??

Thanks,
Carlos

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Re: Cannot connect Almond router with Motorola SB6141 Cable Modem
« Reply #7 on: July 09, 2014, 11:20:41 pm »
The problem with cable modems is that the first time they're connected to a device, they lock to the MAC address of that device and the modem needs to be disconnected from the mains power for about a minute (and any internal battery need to be removed), as this will reset the MAC address lock. This is pointed out in the brief manual included with your Almond. Please see section 3. in the quick start guide here - http://firmware.securifi.com/AL1/AlmondQuickGuide.pdf

It looks like you've already contacted the support team and if this doesn't work, they should be able to provide further assistance.

Offline criveraf

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Re: Cannot connect Almond router with Motorola SB6141 Cable Modem
« Reply #8 on: July 10, 2014, 01:05:59 am »
Hello Lars,

Thanks for replying.

Nope, that did not work either.

As a matter of fact, the guide does not show exactly the same steps or screens I am presented on the router screen.

For example:
Section 3, vii - My device did not reboot; it only made me wait for several seconds while saving my language selection. It did not show me the "Almond" and "SECURIFI" splash screens you get when unplugging/plugging the AC to the unit. Also, this section fails to indicate when to plug back the ethernet cable to the modem and router, since the previous steps indicated to unplug it.

Section 3, xii - After waiting for more than 12 minutes the router did not "auto-detect" any connection from the modem, never displayed any indication of a time-out waiting for connection and did not show me the "Step 4" screen as indicated in the guide if the connection fails. I gave up and had to tap on Skip This Step.

Section 3, xiv, xv, xvi - The router did not show or performed these steps.

Section 3.1, i - Screen shots in the guide are ambiguous. One shows an "Internet" screen and the next one shows a "Step 4" screen, both asking basically the same thing.

Section 3.1, ii - The "Step 5" screen never showed up.

I did not see any anywhere in the guide your explanation about MAC address being locked when connected the first time, nor that following the instructions will do what you explained. It may be implicit, but not actually pointed out. So basically, following the instructions is just doing things blindly, with no explanation of why has to be done this way or otherwise will happen.

Can you provide more specific instructions on what to do?

Thanks in advance.

Carlos
« Last Edit: July 10, 2014, 01:08:36 am by criveraf »

LGNilsson

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Re: Cannot connect Almond router with Motorola SB6141 Cable Modem
« Reply #9 on: July 10, 2014, 01:14:27 am »
It's not the Almond you should unplug, it's the modem if that wasn't clear.
What firmware is your Almond running? The latest version is R199 and if you still have your old modem, you can upgrade the firmware via the Software Update option on the LCD UI.
The guide is based on the R198 release of the firmware which is exactly the same as R199 as far as anything in English is concerned, so it seems like you have an older firmware on your Almond.

It's not explained, because we're trying to keep the tech stuff out of the manual, hence why we mentioned that the modem should be unplugged and any internal battery removed, then it should be left for a minute like that before powered back on. This resets the MAC address lock on cable modems and it's unique to cable modems only.

Keep in mind that the instructions in the manual are for a brand new (or factory rest) Almond, so if you run the wizard on its own, it won't be exactly the same flow.

Please note step xiii. it points out that the steps after that is ONLY if the Almond doesn't auto-detect your connection type. Cable modems are DHCP, so they'll be auto-detected.
You're right that we've messed up a bit with the screenshots, as one if them is from the regular wizard (step 1) and the other one is from the full wizard if you start with a new or factory reset unit, but there's nothing ambiguous about it, as it does the same, although I understand how this can be a bit unclear and we'll get it updated. Step 5 only shows up on a new or factory reset Almond, as it would be the time when you'd have to reset your cable modem.

I'm afraid you'll have to contact the support team, as I don't have any personal experience with these types of modems, since they're not utilized where I'm located.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2014, 01:18:45 am by Lars »

Offline eldaria

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Re: Cannot connect Almond router with Motorola SB6141 Cable Modem
« Reply #10 on: July 10, 2014, 03:21:02 am »
I have seen this before long time ago when I also had a Cable modem.
For some strange reason the cable modem would only provide a connection to the first device that was connected.
I had to call the provider to get them to release the lock.

Offline pete

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Re: Cannot connect Almond router with Motorola SB6141 Cable Modem
« Reply #11 on: July 10, 2014, 07:48:31 am »
@Carlos

Quote
I did not see any anywhere in the guide your explanation about MAC address being locked when connected the first time, nor that following the instructions will do what you explained. It may be implicit, but not actually pointed out. So basically, following the instructions is just doing things blindly, with no explanation of why has to be done this way or otherwise will happen.

Can you provide more specific instructions on what to do?

Typically this is related to what ISP device you are using to connect to the Internet.  The Almond WAN configuration pieces relate to standard ISP connectivity.  The ISP's are getting more granular about this connection.  Mostly the large ISPs here utilize the same type of equipment.  There has been a "shift" a bit to the ISPs providing a combination modem, router, firewall, switch and access point device that you rent from them and they control or manage.  I personally prefer to have my own devices and just utilize my own personally purchased Motorola Modem.  I have Verizon FIOS in another home and that is utilizing a combo modem/firewall/AP/Switch and router.  Totally a different connection such that I bridged the Ethernet to the internet connection to use my own stuff.

Yup; Comcast can reset the Modem from their end.  You shouldn't have to do much with the Almond but restart it. 

Here is what a reset of you Motorola SB 6141 does and why it has a sticky MAC.  Note that it is 3 (three) assignments of MAC addresses.  One MAC is of the Motorola SB 6141 modem and another MAC is of the Ethernet device plugged in to the SB-6141 modem.   

1 - First time it boots it does a TFTP connection to a Comcast server to pull down your speed tier and validate your Modem ID (or its own MAC).
2 - While restarting it checks with Comcast for newer firmware and validates that you are a Comcast customer.
3 - The speed tier and other stuff dropped to your modem.  Its a similiar but different configuration than you firewall. (looks a bit like a Cisco router configuration)
4 - At this time it looks at the ethernet port and MAC from ethernet device and statically assigns said MAC to modem.

Your account with Comcast is configured with the device that you first plugged in.  If you call Comcast technical they will first validate the connection; like you did with a laptop.  They can see your modem and its connectivity (or not) from their end.  Note that the modem does not utilize a crossover cable.  (BTW I am on my third generation of Motorola modems now since around 2000 or so). 

If you want to reset your modem with your laptop you can do that; work fast and do the following.  You cannot break anything doing this.

1 - While on the laptop to modem connection go to http://192.168.100.1 and go to the http://192.168.100.1/cmConfig.htm page. See attached picture.
2 - Reset Motorola SB-6141 per attached picture
3 - Unplug the laptop connection from the modem
4 - plug in the Almond WAN connection to the Motorola SB 6141
5 - plug in the power to the Almond restarting it.

You should see the network LED light on the Almond blink initially, then it should get a DHCP address from the SB-6141 modem.

Once the WAN port network LED on the Almond starts to blink you will see the LCD GUI indicate an Internet connection.

Note that if you call Comcast they can see your modem and if there is an Ethernet device plugged into the Motorola.  Have them reset the Modem from there end.  Tell them to do so.  They will suggest a truck roll to repair the modem or replace it.  There is nothing wrong with your Motorola Modem or your Almond.

BTW you want to keep that Motorola 6141 modem because:

Quote
DOCSIS 3.0 - Released August 2006, the specification was revised to significantly increase transmission speeds (this time both upstream and downstream) and introduce support for Internet Protocol version 6 (IPv6).

Cross-version compatibility has been maintained across all versions of DOCSIS, with the devices falling back to the highest supported version in common between both endpoints: cable modem and cable modem termination system (CMTS). For example, if one has a cable modem that only supports DOCSIS 1.0, and the system is running 2.0, the connection will be established at DOCSIS 1.0 speeds.

As of the end of 2011, the fastest deployments in North America are expected to be Shaw Cable's announced 250 Mbit/s download / 15 Mbit/s upload, which will be implemented in phases, and Videotron's 200 Mbit/s download / 30 Mbit/s upload service in Quebec City,[5] followed by existing 107 Mbit/s deployments in the USA. In 2010, the U.S. Federal Communications Commission (FCC) urged U.S. providers to make 100 Mbit/s a standard speed available to 100 million households before 2020.

DOCSIS 3.1 - Released October 2013, plans support capacities of at least 10 Gbit/s downstream and 1 Gbit/s upstream using 4096 QAM. The new specs will do away with 6 MHz and 8 MHz wide channel spacing and instead use smaller (20 kHz to 50 kHz wide) orthogonal frequency division multiplexing (OFDM) subcarriers; these can be bonded inside a block spectrum that could end up being about 200 MHz wide.

BTW here is a wireless speed test using the Comcast SB-6141 modem and the Almond Wireless AP and my laptop.



Here is another one using the network cable connected from the Comcast SB-6141 modem to the Almond to my laptop.



Note that the ping response times above are OK but not optimal. 

Something like this would be better.

 ;)  Note that I traveled there virtually there in June.

« Last Edit: July 10, 2014, 09:56:38 am by pete »
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Offline criveraf

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Re: Cannot connect Almond router with Motorola SB6141 Cable Modem
« Reply #12 on: July 10, 2014, 11:25:57 am »
Guys,

Thanks for helping me out with this.

The firmware is R199. I updated it yesterday before I attempted Lars suggestion.

I re-did everything again, three times, using Lars indications and then pete's, following your screen shots.

Started by resetting to factory defaults both devices, disconnected from each other. I followed the instructions in the guides of both devices as well. The router did not detect the modem after several minutes of waiting, and in spite of that, it did not show me the Step 4 as indicated in the router's guide when the auto-detect fails. It just gets stuck on the Step 3 "Waiting for connection..." indefinitely. I waited for more than 10 minutes.

The only thing that remains trying is to call Comcast to have them reset the modem from their end, although I don't know if there is any difference in doing that versus doing it myself from the modem's admin web page. Do you know?

Quick question: Someone told me that having both devices running as DHCP servers may be preventing the connection between them. I don't know exactly on which of the two I should disable the DHCP server option to try this. I tried to disable it in the modem but there is no place in the admin web page of the modem to do this. It just says that it is enabled (I read somewhere on the internet that the DHCP server in the modem only actually kicks in when the connection to the ISP drops??).  On the router's admin web page there is an option to disable it. I don't know if this is the one I should use, but anyway, I tried to disable it and click Apply, but it won't take it (the Apply button does not look clickable and it does not save the change). Anyway, the question is: should I attempt to disable DHCP server from one of the two devices as I've been suggested? Would this actually work?

Another question: I have tried this using several ethernet cables, all with the same result. Is there a way to check if the WAN socket on the router is working at all? Maybe it is fried or something? I don't see the socket's light blinking when it is connected to the modem.

More suggestions are welcomed!

Thank you very much for your assistance on this!

Carlos

LGNilsson

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Re: Cannot connect Almond router with Motorola SB6141 Cable Modem
« Reply #13 on: July 10, 2014, 11:34:11 am »
The easy way to test the WAN socket is to set up the Almond as a range extender. This does require another wireless network it can connect to though. Once set up as a range extender, the Almond's Ethernet ports are all treated as LAN ports and you can plug in your notebook into the WAN port.

Offline pete

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Re: Cannot connect Almond router with Motorola SB6141 Cable Modem
« Reply #14 on: July 10, 2014, 12:19:37 pm »
Quote
The router did not detect the modem after several minutes of waiting, and in spite of that, it did not show me the Step 4 as indicated in the router's guide when the auto-detect fails. It just gets stuck on the Step 3 "Waiting for connection..." indefinitely. I waited for more than 10 minutes.

First and foremost is that WAN LED light on the Almond device is illuminating. 

If it doesn't illuminate (blink) then there is not a physical layer of network connectivity happening. 

To test the LED / Physical connectivity try different cables (which you have sort of done) and different devices connecting to that said WAN port.  Connect your laptop just to test the connectivity; IE: LED.

Quote
The only thing that remains trying is to call Comcast to have them reset the modem from their end, although I don't know if there is any difference in doing that versus doing it myself from the modem's admin web page. Do you know?

Comcast sees the side of the Motorola Modem SB6141 that you do not see.  You see more of a an overview and status of the Motorola SB6141 with limited stuff that you can do with the modem.  That said typically the call center person would have to escalate your call to someone a bit more technical then she or he is.

Quote
Anyway, the question is: should I attempt to disable DHCP server from one of the two devices as I've been suggested? Would this actually work?

DHCP is running for the LAN side of the Almond wired or wireless.  The WAN port on the Almond is getting a DHCP address from the Motorola modem.  You can configure the WAN port for a static IP address rather than a DHCP address.  This though shouldn't really be an issue right now though. 

Almond BUG note for firmware AL1-R199-L301-W33: 

I have not been able to disable the DHCP server on the LAN side via the touchscreen GUI or the WEB GUI.  I can change the IP and reduce the size of the DHCP scope just fine.  With prior Almond firmware I had no issues disabling the DHCP server.  Now this is me an my Almond and I am curious about other users relating to said disabling of DHCP on the LAN side of the Almond.  This is using Firefox as a browser on the LAN side of the Almond.

Quote
Another question: I have tried this using several ethernet cables, all with the same result. Is there a way to check if the WAN socket on the router is working at all? Maybe it is fried or something? I don't see the socket's light blinking when it is connected to the modem.

Yes,

I personally think that this is your only issue right now.  Its at a physical layer of the network connection.

Once you get past this part the rest of the pieces will fall into place.

You can test it in the manner specified above and below.

Just plug in your laptop to the WAN port and look at the LED lamp to see if it blinks.  If it blinks then your WAN port is fine.  If it doesn't blink then your WAN port is not fine. (physically)

At this point (with the laptop plugged in) do a cold reset of the Almond (from scratch pushing the little white button on the Almond).  Look to see if the LED lights up.  That is all you need to do.  If it doesn't light up then you have ruled out that its an issue with the cable but rather a physical issue with the WAN port.

If the Almond LED WAN port lights up then move the cable over to the Motorola SB 6141 en vivo. 

If it continues to light up; then just do a warm reset of the Almond.  The Almond should then get a DHCP address from the Motorola SB6141 and you will be good to go.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2014, 12:34:55 pm by pete »
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Pete
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