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Author Topic: Backup and Restore paired devices  (Read 219 times)

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Offline lucasrangit

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Backup and Restore paired devices
« on: November 14, 2017, 01:21:32 pm »
Is it possible to backup and restore paired devices?

What happens when the home automation hub is changed? What if the user has many zigbee and zwave devices installed behind switches, in ceiling light fixtures, etc... that are difficult to access? Is it possible to transfer the paired devices from an existing hub to a new hub without going through the pairing process?

Offline mparadis

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Re: Backup and Restore paired devices
« Reply #1 on: November 14, 2017, 02:58:37 pm »
No it is not.

Offline fillibar

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Re: Backup and Restore paired devices
« Reply #2 on: November 15, 2017, 01:12:12 am »
Something that has been asked for a few times. I know, I have ~90 HA devices now and when I moved from Almond+ to Almond 3 I had ~70. It took a while... I DID see someone ask in the Almond Guard Indiegogo comments also so maybe that will prompt some work in this area as well.
Almond 3 mesh handling the home.

Offline sfinney

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Re: Backup and Restore paired devices
« Reply #3 on: November 25, 2017, 01:57:28 am »
This is heartbreaking.

Wow it would be nice to know how hard this is going to be to provide. If this is 'too big' to expect a manner to easily migrate soon it can affect how we plan deployments. For example, I don't want do a full migration (manually) this weekend (RMA) and then end up needing to do it again with the 3S.

Does anyone with working knowledge of how the 'pairing' works. Just speculation, but if this is some sort of unique key exchange the only way for this to work would be to migrate, i.e. some how 'hand off' from hub 1 to hub 2.

Looking over at SmartThings forum it looks like similar unrest about this. Apparently a migration tool was promised and never delivered.

Offline fillibar

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Re: Backup and Restore paired devices
« Reply #4 on: November 27, 2017, 07:29:38 pm »
I am not an expert on either ZigBee or Z-Wave... but I bet it COULD be a problem. They both use encrypted data which typically means there has to be a secure way of them knowing that both the controller and device are "who they say they are". On a computer this is usually using certificates and such. I know from work that networked devices (like printers) can fairly easily copy settings from one to another but NOT things like their security certificates. They can be backed up but the backup does NOT cross to other devices (it can only go on the exact same device as a restore).

Maybe ZigBee and Z-Wave use a method that includes the "serial #" of the device involved and thus a backup COULD be made but could never be readily transferred to another device.

It would be nice to get an official confirmation of this though. If it actually is not possible to make a migration tool BECAUSE of the security of the HA standards... that is different then... "we want to, but it is not high enough priority yet". One removes hope, but understandably... the other leaves you hanging.
Almond 3 mesh handling the home.

Offline mparadis

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Re: Backup and Restore paired devices
« Reply #5 on: November 29, 2017, 09:12:05 am »
I know changing devices is a pain BUT for me I actually prefer to readd everything for a "clean" install. Particularly if the new device (3 or 3S) may not be in the same physical location as the last one was. It'll take some time but in the end will workout. Also gives you an opportunity to test out the built in battery :-D. I imagine migrating the devices would be extremely involved IF possible just because of all the levels of security involved particularly for devices like locks and security devices.

Offline fillibar

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Re: Backup and Restore paired devices
« Reply #6 on: November 30, 2017, 03:54:27 pm »
So... Right or wrong I found out that there IS a serial # like ID that is used by ZigBee, and it is unique per device and controller. If one gets changed somehow, they will not talk until paired again. If the controller is changed... Nothing will work with it after that point until you pair the devices again.

So there is no way (as I can see) to copy the devices or move them to another controller because the ID will not match and they will not work. It could be possible to BACKUP the settings but you would only be able to RESTORE to the same hardware (assuming the ID does not get changed on that hardware) which limits the usefulness.

Allowing a system to change the ID on the controller (make a new one respond as if it was the old one) would be a big security risk.
Almond 3 mesh handling the home.

Offline mparadis

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Re: Backup and Restore paired devices
« Reply #7 on: December 05, 2017, 07:42:38 am »
That makes sense

 

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